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PCM.daily Projects CT Stat Discussion
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 02-09-2016 10:21
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emre99 wrote:
Is it the place to talk about PCT stats, if yes, I want a stat revolution for Adam Phelan from Drapac. He isn't a TTer anymore more like hilly sprinter. A hill and sprint stat of 70-69, while his tt for 67 and prl for 68. It is a guy who i scout him alot, well.. 
yes it is...
well he is a punchy sprinter in our db already, but I agree with you and lowered his Pro by 2 and insted raised his Spr and Hi by 1
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 02-09-2016 11:04
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@jpgm:
- Ciolek & Bialoblocki are constantly updated (downgraded)
- Halvorsen & Jensen shouldn't be much higher better than one of the best hilly sprinters in the division and a sub-top CT sprinter (f.e. in Career Mode he will climb up to 74-75 sprint in the first year pretty easily, which could make him a dominator that he isn`t yet)
- the big post from the 16.8.: had now the time to take a deep look inside and made final Volta adjustions based on your opinion here
- the post from 26.8.: all put in pretty much exactly like you proposed
@bbl:
- Costa will have maximum 70 Mo if it's by me to fully decide. We've seen what he's capable of against similar opponence at the Tour de L'Avenir. At the Tour of Utah there was only one top-guy on form (Morton). A form-building Atapuma or Dombrowski and an exhausted Talansky are not on too much higher level. The other opponents on top form were the likes of Britton, Rosskopf, Senni, Squire, Eisenhart, maybe Didier. Surely he performed there with a stat that might deserve up to 72, but taking the whole season he is not worth more than 69/70.
@Selwink:
- cobble upgraded for van der Brand and Schulting - the general problem with CT cobbled stats is that it's very hard to get information about whether a lower rated race is cobbled or not...we can't do deep researches for every race, so we often have to go after the PCS site, where it's often not shown in the profile (if there is any) if cobbles were raced or not - so we have to guess from the results. In all honesty that leads to the fact that CT-cobbles might be the darkest hole of our stats in the db, so input there is more than wanted.
- de Vrijs got an overall boost, making sure that he stays a hily classsics specialist though
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| Leonoel |
Posted on 04-09-2016 14:42
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I would suggest to slightly move up the stats of the following riders. Haven't always made a lot of comparison with other rider's stats, but you might at least have another look on these riders.
Garikoitz Bravo (Euskadi) + Bizkarra / Iturria / Txoperena:
He had a quite decent season, especially on hilly and mountainous parcourses and went as captain into nearly all of the one-day and stage races Euskadi participated in (sometimes shared with Bizkarra and/or Iturria). 8th in Castilla y Leon, 4th Asturias, 4th Madrid, 15th RdSud deserves a higher MO stat IMO, maybe 71 or even 72. And/or maybe put the hill stat to 72, seeing his results in one day races (Villafranca, Rioja and not too far off Indurain and Murcia).
Bizkarra was only better in RdSud compared to Bravo, so if he stays on 70 MT, Bravo should be at least 1 better IMO.
Iturria could deserve a 69/70 MO stat, seeing his RdSud and Burgos results. Probably a better hill stat as well (only 66 right now). At least better stats than e.g. Txoperena (68/67 MO HI right now).
Giovanni Carboni (Unieuro) + Nych / Schlegel:
This season has shown that he is better in climbs compared to his teammate Tecchio (67 MO), so I think he deserves a 67 MO stat at least. Also guys like Schlegel, Nych have 67 MO, he's normally about on their level I'd say, although both might already deserve a 68/69 MO.
Only race where Carboni didn't deliver was Avenir (maybe due to other reasons), otherwise he was up there in Turkey (13th), Azerbaijan (6th), Isard (6th). Maybe also a better TT stat, seeing his 2nd in Italy's NC U23 TT.
Generally, he seems to become more a GC rider with high MO and TT stats, less one for hilly one day races, so maybe even a lesser hill stat if the other one's are increased. Higher REC stat could be adequate as well in that logic.
Marco Tecchio (Unieuro):
Although he just won the Tour of Bulgaria, he seems to be even more suited to hilly one day races. Next to some good results in lower italian one day races these last years, he did quite well for his age in last year's autumn classics, where he was never far off and finished 15th Agostoni, 18th Pantani, 22th Beghelli (in between a 5th place in Almaty). So I'd improve his hill stat to 68 or even 69 (if needed rather lower his REC stat or at least have him a lower MO stat than Carboni, see above). |
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| irdalopez |
Posted on 06-09-2016 08:34
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Carpenter??? |
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 06-09-2016 10:15
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69 TT 69 Spr 68 TT
Leonoel wrote:
Garikoitz Bravo (Euskadi) + Bizkarra / Iturria / Txoperena:
Giovanni Carboni (Unieuro) + Nych / Schlegel:
Marco Tecchio (Unieuro):
Bravo ist still not one of the superb CT hills riders, that's why I would keep him at 71 Hill. He got most of his results from reduced group sprints after some hills, that's why he has a good sprint and acceleration stat. His results on the first sight in the .1 races look impressive, but everywhere there are other CT guys beating him which prevents me of putting him to 72 hill. Ususally he is not with the top guys on climbing races as far as I've seen (Portugal), but if you show me a climbing (not hilly) stage where he was impressive we'll put him on 70 or better at the mountain stat. But so far his result in Albi on the Route du Sud is not worth it.
The relation to Bizkarra is different. Taking into account the back-up stats Bravo should feel around 2 points better in climbing races compared to Bizkarra (Due to his Hill stat, ACC stat,...).
Iturria had a very wak start of the season, but he was impressive in the mountains lately where I agree with you. Therefore I'll rise his stats there due to your suggestion to 70 Mo, but with very weak back-up stats and staying at 66 Hill as he has done nothing in races that concentrate on different terrain than mountain.
With Txoperena you're right. I overrated his breakaway results a little, so he got decreased to 67 Mo, which should still make him competitive for breakaways.
For now I not really agree with you at Schlegel. He did well at L'Avenir, but the opponence he beat is not really higher rated there and at the Czech Cycling Tour or Paix & Polska. Still he is near to 68 in climbing and hills for me, and the next impressive result will make him a 68 rider I guess.
On Nych I need a little more input. He will feel better in game than his stats suggest, because his allround abilities will make him lose fewer energy than many other opponents. But what will he turn out to be for a rider? As long as he performs on mountains, hills, sprints and even cobbles we don't know enough to give him a clear developement direction. Maybe somebody who knows him very well here?
Tecchio indeed was misjudged by me. I lowered his MO to 66 and increased his hill to 69, which make him feel much more like he really races and also correct his career developement. A problem in judging these is that we often don't really find profiles from lower rated italian races.
With Carbonis TT I also agree with you, 67 seems better especially given his Avenir result being most likely out of form and Italian U23 TT and his influence on thestrong TTT results of Unieuro Willier. But for his Mountain for the moment I don't see a point to increase his stat to more than 67. He didn't deliver in the U23 races really (or better than Tecchio), and Azerbaidjan hardly had a difficult climbing stage. Turkey reference and your thoughts though makes me upgrading him to 67, despite beating Ockeloen for a low Top15 is not really the thing to show that you're a climbing specialist. His results in the hills are just worth more. I have adjusted his stats though in a manner that he should develop as stage racer in a career (higher Mo, TT, Rec, lower Acc and Sta), but for the moment he is better in the hills and than in the mountains. Please tell me how good you know him and if you can go with my explanation and thoughts, or otherwise convince me of changing Carbonis stats further.
Same goes of course for every other rider you mentioned here. These kind of posts are really worthful for us, so a big thanks to you Leonoel.
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Posted on 22-11-2024 07:28
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| Leonoel |
Posted on 06-09-2016 15:05
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I'm alright with the adjustments you made, thanks for considering my arguments.
Although I still think Bravo would deserve a better MO stat. I would take Asturias stage 1 and Gévaudan stage 1 (2015) as climbing examples, maybe also Leon stage 3 where he - as so often - seems just to miss a little bit to be really upfront. But I see that's it sometimes difficult to prove result-wise.
About Nych/Schlegel you are probably right, I don't know them well but just took them as a comparison to Carboni, as I follow some italian amateur/U23 riders quite a bit. With Carboni being 'better in the hills than mountains' you mean better on hilly stages in stage races? Because these last years, he mostly did well in stage races and has far less results in one day races than other Italians at his age (this year only GP Capodarco which is more suited to mountain riders). He really seems to focus on his TT skills (7th, 2nd and 2nd in last three years U23 ITT at the age of 18, 19 and 20!) and gets better and better in mountain stages.
Maybe another minor suggestion as I know them quite well:
Leon Rohde (LKT) + Louis Rohde:
He is really a Marcel Kittel-like rider (although he of course is and will stay several levels under him). So really coming over his power, thus doing well in TT and Prologues but long sprints as well and quite good on the track (nearly got nominated for the Team pursuit in Rio). I think he could deserve a better FLAT stat and maybe a 69/70 SP as it's more his power than acceleration which makes him doing good in sprints. Also he's good in longer time trials (most apparent in U23 ITT NC last 3 years, also Tour de Berlin this year and minor races), not only prologues, so maybe 67 TT.
His brother Louis though quit racing in 2016 and isn't even competing at a lower level. So he could be downgraded a bit, because his brother is far better e.g. in FL and SP. |
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 07-09-2016 12:13
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@Leonoel: Adjusted the stats of Bravo (+1Mo), Carboni (+1Mo), Le. Rohde (70 FL, 69 Spr, 68 Acc) and Lo.Rohde (64Fl, 64 Spr, 64 Acc, Pot3) due to your suggestions.
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| irdalopez |
Posted on 19-09-2016 20:07
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Stats Riccardo Minali?? he will be cyclist from Astana next year |
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 19-09-2016 21:50
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irdalopez wrote:
Stats Riccardo Minali?? he will be cyclist from Astana next year
We haven't statted him so far, but good spot! suggest some 
Edited by Croatia14 on 01-10-2016 10:28
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| irdalopez |
Posted on 16-10-2016 23:11
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A post Doha update (The stats google document) for juniors and U23?? final season?  |
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 16-10-2016 23:26
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irdalopez wrote:
A post Doha update (The stats google document) for juniors and U23?? final season?
hmmm will come soon, tomorrow most likely 
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| irdalopez |
Posted on 21-10-2016 17:32
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Thanks! |
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 21-10-2016 19:13
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they're done
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| irdalopez |
Posted on 11-11-2016 14:50
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Marco Mathis 1st U23 World Time Trial Championships has 60TT 64PR |
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| jpgm97 |
Posted on 10-02-2017 16:11
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I don't know if you plan increasing Amaro Antunes stats, but I think he desearves after Valenciana, a rece that if wasn't that huge TTT, he could do top 5 or even top3.
Keep the good work. |
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 10-02-2017 17:06
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jpgm97 wrote:
I don't know if you plan increasing Amaro Antunes stats, but I think he desearves after Valenciana, a rece that if wasn't that huge TTT, he could do top 5 or even top3.
Keep the good work.
Hi. Today went through the big quadruple header of stage races and just updated CT stats, including Antunes to 71 Mo 70 Hi. He has some really good CT stats, and they'll be increased further surely if he can hold on to this level. Looking at last year's Volta a Portugal though, we can't yet justify a 72 MO right now (also looking at his good back-ups), but as said, if he continues like this 72 or even 73 is well possible.
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| jpgm97 |
Posted on 10-02-2017 17:54
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Croatia14 wrote:
jpgm97 wrote:
I don't know if you plan increasing Amaro Antunes stats, but I think he desearves after Valenciana, a rece that if wasn't that huge TTT, he could do top 5 or even top3.
Keep the good work.
Hi. Today went through the big quadruple header of stage races and just updated CT stats, including Antunes to 71 Mo 70 Hi. He has some really good CT stats, and they'll be increased further surely if he can hold on to this level. Looking at last year's Volta a Portugal though, we can't yet justify a 72 MO right now (also looking at his good back-ups), but as said, if he continues like this 72 or even 73 is well possible.
Last year I doubted his abilities, because he didn't show the same he did in Algarve at the Volta, but seeing that he can keep and improve the level from last year winter, my mind changed. You have to consider that he peaked for Algarve last year and this year he will do the same, and Veloso is the leader at Volta a Portugal. And that makes a lot of difference, while others leaders are on their maximum shape, Amaro may be a little bit behind them. So to be fair, this year, he should be judged on his performance on Vallenciana and Algarve, rather than the Volta.
Even still I agree with what you said for now. Only now, because I believe he will do a great performance in Algarve.
Also will be there some change to Samuel Caldeira? |
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 10-02-2017 18:45
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to Caldeira: he went up +2 hill today and +1 stamina and I'm not sure whether he got that +1 spr +1 acc too, but yeah, we have him on the special watchlist too
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 15-03-2017 21:54
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Maybe keep an eye out for Joeri Stallaert? He had a few hard years after Landbouwkrediet folded, but he seems to be back now. 7th in the bunch sprint in Kuurne and 3rd in Nokere today. No idea where else he'll be riding though, Cibel isn't the biggest team..
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| irdalopez |
Posted on 26-03-2017 23:30
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I think that Thomas Pidcock (1999)  should be in the db.
European and World Champion Cyclo-cross 2017.
11 Gent-Wevelgem Junior.
Maybe cobble´s King in a few years.
https://www.cyclin...m-pidcock/ |
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