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News in August
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 02-08-2016 17:27
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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ringo182 wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
[quote] what the tester was else to do when entry is forbidden and the athlete does not react..[quote]
Ask the hotel staff to go and get her?
That's no way to work. Athletes/teams should inform the hotel manager that doping tests can be possible and that people should be allowed to knock on her door. Otherwise you leave too much room for abuse.
Hotel staff cannot be forced to cooperate with doping officials, so if the rider (aka, the paying customer) tells them not to allow visitors, the official can't do anything about that. The staff will tell him that they don't want to disturb their customer so early (which probably happened in this case) and all he can do is sit and wait.
If he is forced to announce his job at the reception, the rider can disappear "on a training run" by a backdoor before he's anywhere near her room, or is given some time to manipulate the results. Again, no way to work.
Sounds like a bit of a security risk to me. Someone might show up, refuse to tell you who they are but you have to take them wherever they want to go in the hotel. If that's how it works I could get into any athletes hotel room.
Surely these testers get turned away from hotels and other places numerous times. They must have a better back up plan then "giving her phone a try" 
Such as? In this case, the official tried the hotel and her phone. What other option is there? If the official can't reach her despite his best efforts, it should be a missed test.
Phone her team manager? Phone her agent. Phone her sports national governing body? Just wait in the lobby. At the end of the day if it's their policy not to tell hotels who they are then they should be ready to be refused entry.
They are a professional body and their tactics for getting hold of atheletes are the same as me when I was 15 and I went to call for my mate round his house. His mom says he's not there so I try his phone. He doesn't answer, oh well, that's all I can do!?!?!
Obviously it shouldn't count as a missed test otherwise she would be banned at this moment
Again, this gives the rider time to cover up if he was doing something illegal. I mean, if you had to phone Bruyneel because you couldn't reach Lance, would he just say "np, Lance will be down in two minutes"? Of course not, he would say "Oh my, I have no idea where Lance could be. I'll go find him right away! In the mean time, have a few drinks in the hotel bar, put it on my tab!"
I think you're being very naive here, this system will only work if the doping officials have immediate access to the riders, otherwise they could just call in the day before that they'll be visiting the next day.
And your being very cynical to assume that every cyclist is cheating and has something to cover. Sometimes genuine admin errors or acts of god will prevent an athlete being where the testers think they should be. Hence the 3 strike system.
There is obviously no perfect system. Especially if the testers refuse to say who they are. Why couldn't the tester say "she's not available now, she has 1 hour to get here otherwise it is a missed test". Then there would be no excuse for missing it. Obviously they could take masking agents but they would be so new in the system they would show up more easily.
This is copied from your post earlier today:
Probably the majority of professional cyclists (male or female) either are currently using, or have used in the past, performance enhancing drugs.
So what do you actually think, that cyclists have something to hide in many cases and thus need strict doping control rules, or that they dont?
Btw. this is not closed case and we can discuss it how we like it, even if it was, this is discussion forum about cycling, so we discuss, where is the problem? Nobody is forced to read it or joint it.
In cycling things are not that easy like "she was cleared so she is fine" especially because whole sport was destroyed in recent years with "i have never returned positive so i am clean" bullshit. Whole system lack money and sponsor, so cases are often adressed with consequences in mind. 
About the testing, Shonak and Ollfardh already covered that nicely, so no need to say more on that from my side, i agree with them.
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 02-08-2016 17:30
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
PCM$: 1348.00
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Shonak wrote:
ivaneurope wrote:
Would you knock it off? 
The CAS has decided
Armistead has been cleared
THE END
I don't want to enter into who's doper or not debate as yesterday I had to deal with such BS on Facebook.
Who cares what you have to deal with on facebook. This is an issue and I like to discuss it on daily, so I discuss it.
My sentiments exactly. I've somehow been drawn into a discussion with conspiracy theorists all afternoon
You mean us? I don't understand you if you consider discussion of doping rules as a conspiracy theory.
Well every thing I've said has been met by theories of cyclists ducking out the back door or team managers tipping off their riders so I feel that the conspiracy theory claim is justified :-) |
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| Shonak |
Posted on 02-08-2016 17:46
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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This is not a conspiracy theory when the entire premise and logic of doping tests rests upon correct processure. And this processure can only be guaranteed when the athlete does not know when he or she will be tested, not a single minute before, and the tester has sight on him/her all time during the test.
This is evidently not about Armistead in this special case now but you need to understand this basic premise of doping tests, otherwise how should the authorities ever get a positive results?
Watch this clip of John Oliver Last week tonight and you will understand the lengths athletes go to, to avoid being caught out.
https://www.youtu...gyqAD5Z6_A
This has nothing to do at all with conspiracy theories. This is just the sport we follow. It has come to these measures because yes, the sport is a doping pool. Now no one would have believed that riders miss out three tests in a year when you can lose 4 years. But Armistead did.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 02-08-2016 17:46
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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ivaneurope wrote:
Would you knock it off?
The CAS has decided
Armistead has been cleared
THE END
I don't want to enter into who's doper or not debate as yesterday I had to deal with such BS on Facebook.
No offence mate, but this is a discussion forum. You can expect some discussions here
She may have been cleared officialy, but history has seen some weird people getting cleared of any wrongdoing, which Avin already explained. I personaly expect to feel the same sour taste in my mouth as Vino 2012 if she wins the gold.
Ringo, can I suggest you read through the 70s-80s-90s doping history, because what you call a conspiracy theory has actually happened in the doping era of cycling. Riders were hiding from doping investigators and managers were tipping off their riders to avoid being caught.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| weirdskyfan64 |
Posted on 02-08-2016 17:47
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1387
Joined: 15-03-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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I don't get how 'They didn't look for me properly!' is an excuse. If doping controls can't find you, and you are so desperate to prove you're clean, why can't you just find them yourself?
Disclaimer- Most of my posts are me thinking aloud. And most of what I think is rubbish.
Winner of a FIFA Prediction Fair Play Award (a phrase becoming increasingly ironic)
"... Because he (me) has a sound tactical mind in general..." jandal7, at 9:30 am GMT on 12th May 2016
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 02-08-2016 17:50
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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ringo182 wrote:
Shonak wrote:
ivaneurope wrote:
Would you knock it off?
The CAS has decided
Armistead has been cleared
THE END
I don't want to enter into who's doper or not debate as yesterday I had to deal with such BS on Facebook.
Who cares what you have to deal with on facebook. This is an issue and I like to discuss it on daily, so I discuss it.
My sentiments exactly. I've somehow been drawn into a discussion with conspiracy theorists all afternoon
You mean us? I don't understand you if you consider discussion of doping rules as a conspiracy theory.
Well every thing I've said has been met by theories of cyclists ducking out the back door or team managers tipping off their riders so I feel that the conspiracy theory claim is justified :-)
Well, all cyclists can thank Mr. Armstrong and similar dickheads that brought this sport to the point where you cant believe people claiming that their have nose between their eyes.
The fact that some of these cheaters that destroyed the faith of people and sponsors in cycling are still praised as cycling heroes also does not help the situation...
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 02-08-2016 17:55
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
PCM$: 1348.00
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Ollfardh wrote:
ivaneurope wrote:
Would you knock it off?
The CAS has decided
Armistead has been cleared
THE END
I don't want to enter into who's doper or not debate as yesterday I had to deal with such BS on Facebook.
No offence mate, but this is a discussion forum. You can expect some discussions here
She may have been cleared officialy, but history has seen some weird people getting cleared of any wrongdoing, which Avin already explained. I personaly expect to feel the same sour taste in my mouth as Vino 2012 if she wins the gold.
Ringo, can I suggest you read through the 70s-80s-90s doping history, because what you call a conspiracy theory has actually happened in the doping era of cycling. Riders were hiding from doping investigators and managers were tipping off their riders to avoid being caught.
Lots of things happened in the 70s, 80s and 90s. It's 2016.
Look, we all agree that the testing system isn't perfect. We are all aware that there are cyclists and teams that cheat. We all agree it's possible for tests to be missed through no fault of the rider, as in this case.
I'm happy to agree to disagree and move on :-)
Next category please.
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 02-08-2016 18:33
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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ringo182 wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
ivaneurope wrote:
Would you knock it off?
The CAS has decided
Armistead has been cleared
THE END
I don't want to enter into who's doper or not debate as yesterday I had to deal with such BS on Facebook.
No offence mate, but this is a discussion forum. You can expect some discussions here
She may have been cleared officialy, but history has seen some weird people getting cleared of any wrongdoing, which Avin already explained. I personaly expect to feel the same sour taste in my mouth as Vino 2012 if she wins the gold.
Ringo, can I suggest you read through the 70s-80s-90s doping history, because what you call a conspiracy theory has actually happened in the doping era of cycling. Riders were hiding from doping investigators and managers were tipping off their riders to avoid being caught.
Lots of things happened in the 70s, 80s and 90s. It's 2016.
Look, we all agree that the testing system isn't perfect. We are all aware that there are cyclists and teams that cheat. [b]We all agree it's possible for tests to be missed through no fault of the rider, as in this case.[/b]
I'm happy to agree to disagree and move on :-)
Next category please.
Â
No we don't, that's the whole point!
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 02-08-2016 18:48
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
PCM$: 1348.00
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Ollfardh wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
ivaneurope wrote:
Would you knock it off?
The CAS has decided
Armistead has been cleared
THE END
I don't want to enter into who's doper or not debate as yesterday I had to deal with such BS on Facebook.
No offence mate, but this is a discussion forum. You can expect some discussions here
She may have been cleared officialy, but history has seen some weird people getting cleared of any wrongdoing, which Avin already explained. I personaly expect to feel the same sour taste in my mouth as Vino 2012 if she wins the gold.
Ringo, can I suggest you read through the 70s-80s-90s doping history, because what you call a conspiracy theory has actually happened in the doping era of cycling. Riders were hiding from doping investigators and managers were tipping off their riders to avoid being caught.
Lots of things happened in the 70s, 80s and 90s. It's 2016.
Look, we all agree that the testing system isn't perfect. We are all aware that there are cyclists and teams that cheat. [b]We all agree it's possible for tests to be missed through no fault of the rider, as in this case.[/b]
I'm happy to agree to disagree and move on :-)
Next category please.
Â
No we don't, that's the whole point!
Well according to the people who make the decision, have all the facts and know all the rules it is possible. You are entitled to you opinion but today's decision has proved your opinion to be wrong. |
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| Strydz |
Posted on 02-08-2016 19:03
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Team Leader
Posts: 5894
Joined: 02-08-2011
PCM$: 1625.00
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What I don't get is that Armistead was cleared on that first test but what about the other 2 missed tests? How is it possible to escape a ban if you've missed 3 tests in 12 months
Edited by Strydz on 02-08-2016 19:12
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 02-08-2016 19:10
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7694
Joined: 18-08-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Strydz wrote:
How is it possible to escape a ban if you've missed 3 tests in 12 months
Because due to the ruling, she's only missed two now.
THE THOMAS VOECKLER PROPHET OF PCM DAILY
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| aidanvn13 |
Posted on 02-08-2016 19:15
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2797
Joined: 06-11-2010
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Trust me, I have many friends on ADAMS (the whereabouts system). You don't simply "miss a test". Besides, she's only "proven" that missing one test wasn't her fault (even though that "proof" remains sketchy). What about the other two? It's not really something you'll see with a clean athlete.
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| Strydz |
Posted on 02-08-2016 19:22
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Team Leader
Posts: 5894
Joined: 02-08-2011
PCM$: 1625.00
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aidanvn13 wrote:
Trust me, I have many friends on ADAMS (the whereabouts system). You don't simply "miss a test". Besides, she's only "proven" that missing one test wasn't her fault (even though that "proof" remains sketchy). What about the other two? It's not really something you'll see with a clean athlete.
It's all pretty easy to update your location with the whereabouts system isn't it?
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
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| aidanvn13 |
Posted on 02-08-2016 19:29
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2797
Joined: 06-11-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Strydz wrote:
aidanvn13 wrote:
Trust me, I have many friends on ADAMS (the whereabouts system). You don't simply "miss a test". Besides, she's only "proven" that missing one test wasn't her fault (even though that "proof" remains sketchy). What about the other two? It's not really something you'll see with a clean athlete.
It's all pretty easy to update your location with the whereabouts system isn't it?
Extremely easy from what I've heard. No location is technically too remote. You can read more here: https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/more-...tead-case/
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| Shonak |
Posted on 02-08-2016 19:35
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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I love how some users try to make this a non-story yet pro athletes are critical. Reverse omerta. <3
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 02-08-2016 19:50
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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ringo182 wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
ivaneurope wrote:
Would you knock it off?
The CAS has decided
Armistead has been cleared
THE END
I don't want to enter into who's doper or not debate as yesterday I had to deal with such BS on Facebook.
No offence mate, but this is a discussion forum. You can expect some discussions here
She may have been cleared officialy, but history has seen some weird people getting cleared of any wrongdoing, which Avin already explained. I personaly expect to feel the same sour taste in my mouth as Vino 2012 if she wins the gold.
Ringo, can I suggest you read through the 70s-80s-90s doping history, because what you call a conspiracy theory has actually happened in the doping era of cycling. Riders were hiding from doping investigators and managers were tipping off their riders to avoid being caught.
Lots of things happened in the 70s, 80s and 90s. It's 2016.
Look, we all agree that the testing system isn't perfect. We are all aware that there are cyclists and teams that cheat. [b]We all agree it's possible for tests to be missed through no fault of the rider, as in this case.[/b]
I'm happy to agree to disagree and move on :-)
Next category please.
Â
No we don't, that's the whole point!
Well according to the people who make the decision, have all the facts and know all the rules it is possible. You are entitled to you opinion but today's decision has proved your opinion to be wrong.
Come on now, don't go down that road. You were an excellent debater for the whole Brexit thing, but here you're just being rudiculous. It's not because they cut her some slack, that my opinion is wrong (how can an opinion be wrong, by the way?).
She made 3 mistakes, but they gave her the benefit of the doubt about one and she got off the hook. But that doesn't mean we should just accept it was the right call. It's good to see other riders disagree with it as well, cause we all know it's not the first time anti-doping agencies protected a top rider.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 02-08-2016 20:11
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
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I kinda want to call time on this "discussion". At this stage you guys are not discussing the News and the topic should probably move elsewhere, i imagine we could get a very good thread going specifically for general anti-doping issues like the ADAMS system.
This is the News thread, so lets try and keep it to News and fact based discussion.
And i hvn't seen quote pyramids like this in a while, always a good indication things are escalating 
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 02-08-2016 20:20
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
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TheManxMissile wrote:
And i hvn't seen quote pyramids like this in a while, always a good indication things are escalating
Oh my God pyramids and conspiracy theories.
It's the Illuminati!
They've taken over PCM.Daily! |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 02-08-2016 20:24
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
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In an attempt to move onwards, i'm probably zabled on this.
https://www.uci.ch/pressreleases/the-u...r-for-207/
10, yes 10!, new WT events for 2017. And all 2017 WT events will be WT through to the end of 2019.
Cadel Evans Great Ocean Road Race (hopefully this means the related womens race will move up as well)
Tour of Qatar (oh yay...)
Abu Dhabi Tour (we knew this was coming)
Omloop (good call!)
Strade Bianche (was only a matter of time!)
Dwards Door (moar cobbles plz)
Tour of Turkey (erm... what?)
Eschborn-Frankfurt (not the Deutschland Tour yet)
AToC (huh, didnn't see that one coming)
RideLondon (ok this was also obvious)
No major date changes either, so that early season is gonna be packed with WT events. Wonder what this will do to the PCT landscape given the huge number of extra wildcard spaces available, especially with additions like Turkey and AToC...
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| Shonak |
Posted on 02-08-2016 20:26
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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New WT calendar 2017 announcaed, UCI shooting for insane amount of races now. WT teams with some extra race days will have a fun time..
- 29 January: Cadel Evans Great Ocean Road Race (Australia)
- 6-10 February: Tour of Qatar (Qatar)
- 23-26 February: Abu Dhabi Tour (United Arab Emirates)
- 25 February: Omloop Het Nieuwsblad (Belgium)
- 4 March: Strade Bianche (Italy)
- 22 March: Dwars Door Vlaanderen / A travers la Flandre (Belgium)
- 18-23 April: Presidential Cycling Tour of Turkey (Turkey)
- 1 May: Eschborn-Frankfurt « Rund um den Finanzplatz » (Germany)
- 14-21 May: Amgen Tour of California (United States)
- 30 July: Prudential RideLondon-Surrey Classic (Great Britain)
https://www.uci.ch...r-for-207/
EDIT oh well zabeled ;(
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
