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25-11-2024 02:07
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Pre Tour de France 2016-thread
jandal7
Sammy - Thanks for the response! I meant the jersey would have changed hands on stage 2, so we will see a new yellow jersey in stage 3, whoops Wink Rosa was in the late attack category but probably should be his own favorite after his breakthrough in the last 12 months. Interesting commentary on stages 3-5, I haven't seen too much of 4 and 5's finishes but cool analysis. I'm favoring a break or puncher for stage 5 but Sagan, Gerrans, Kristoff, etc. are probably contenders in their own right. Jersey should change hands on stage 2, maybe 5, and 7 unless Nibali, Valverde, etc. take it on stage 5. I think it's a stage 5 or stage 7 situation, but you never know.

Also, Voeckler show should be coming up when the second preview does, with a descent into Bagneres-de-Luchon Grin
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."

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Shonak
Riis123 wrote:
but maybe, just maybe, they are seriously thinking of bringing Juraj and let the Sagan do their own things early on?

Dude has never ridden a GT before and now you want to place him in Tinkov's Swan Song? Juraj is a decent rider for CT, but he plays no role for the ambitions of either Bertie nor $agan, thus no reason at all to include him. But what do I care, Tinkoff team sucks anyway despite the two biggest superstars (no ca$h left..). Bertie will have a nice job on his hands with Astana rampage, Sky Train and schizophrenic Movistar racing.
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"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
 
sammyt93
I was just going off the elevation at 1km to go and at the finish on the pictures of the profiles you posted, I haven't seen anything more than that recently enough to remember it.

Also I just realised we could get a French Attack Fest on one stage, with Voeckler, Rolland and Gauthier all on separate teams.

Imagine those 3 getting reunited in a break, I'd almost expect it to be attempted on Bastille day if Gauthier is going, don't think I've heard either way yet.
 
Riis123
Ey, I've read too much stage previews, so sorry for not reading and commenting on the content. However, I read sammy's reply for some (strange) reason:

Stage 5 is a proper medium mountain stage. Its waaay too hard for the likes of Gerrans, Matthews, Boasson Hagen etc. - imagine the stage Nibali won in GB in 2014, just on steroids... big steroids Pfft Think Dan Martin-types and the biggest GC-cotenders, depending on how much they want to entertain us. But Pas de Peyrol and Perthus are hard climbs and in the final. Very good stage design.

I agree with you assessment of stages 3 and 4. Kittel should still be the favoured rider on stage 3 (wasn't it very similar to the opening stage he won in 2014, slightly uphill?), but stage 4 is too hard. It looks 6% on 0,5 km: as you say, Sagan, Matthews, Coquard and my favourite, EBH.

Its a decent first week, but nothing more. Lacks a time trial/prologue, something to mix it up. But the Pyrenees already starts on stage 7 and the stage in Massif Central (stage 5) is better than anything I can remember coming out of ASO in that area.
 
Riis123
Shonak wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
but maybe, just maybe, they are seriously thinking of bringing Juraj and let the Sagan do their own things early on?

Dude has never ridden a GT before and now you want to place him in Tinkov's Swan Song? Juraj is a decent rider for CT, but he plays no role for the ambitions of either Bertie nor $agan, thus no reason at all to include him. But what do I care, Tinkoff team sucks anyway despite the two biggest superstars (no ca$h left..). Bertie will have a nice job on his hands with Astana rampage, Sky Train and schizophrenic Movistar racing.

I very much thought my post implied that it was highly improbable...?

Jesus Hernandez and Paulinho doesnt either. They suck, yet they have been picked consistently over the past 3 years. Who knows, its Tinkoff after all and Sagan is, in my humble opinion, the rider that deserves the most support on Tinkoff.
 
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Shonak
Riis123 wrote:
Sagan is, in my humble opinion, the rider that deserves the most support on Tinkoff.

Suuure he does because who cares about Maillot Jaune anyway :lol:
pcmdaily.com/files/Awards2016/team.png
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"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
 
Riis123
Shonak wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
Sagan is, in my humble opinion, the rider that deserves the most support on Tinkoff.

Suuure he does because who cares about Maillot Jaune anyway :lol:


Damn, you are too easy to troll.
 
sammyt93
Boassan Hagen and Sagan have both shown they can climb fairly well so if it's not raced hard, with them more likely peaking for the early stages rather than the Alps like the GC guys I wouldn't be too surprised if they managed to hang on.

No idea why you read my reply and not the Preview, maybe it's the colourful user bars drawing your eye to it or the fact I don't often post in the Cycling Forum.
 
Riis123
sammyt93 wrote:
Boassan Hagen and Sagan have both shown they can climb fairly well so if it's not raced hard, with them more likely peaking for the early stages rather than the Alps like the GC guys I wouldn't be too surprised if they managed to hang on.

No idea why you read my reply and not the Preview, maybe it's the colourful user bars drawing your eye to it or the fact I don't often post in the Cycling Forum.


Well, it needs to be ridden uber conservatively for them to win. Its possible, I just dont (want to) see that.
 
jandal7
@sammy - Yes please French attackfest! Gonna compile a start list for the riders preview - Gautier is going though!

@Riis - Yep stage 5 is medium mountain for sure, really like it too! Don't expect any sprinters there, maybe Sagan or EBH if it's not raced too fast for them, so I didn't put any. Thanks though, agree that aside from 7 and 5 it's a standard first week. And yeah, there's plenty of stage previews to read on the web Pfft

@sammy (2) - I just need to win another thing and put it in my sig to get noticed Pfft


Anyway, here's Semaine Deux:
Spoiler
jandal's jandally guide to Le Tour
Deux: Le Parcours de le Tour II

Hello and welcome to jandal's (my) jandally (Made up word I did to describe something of my style, e.g. weird and inaccurate) guide (haha more like IQ lowererer) to (not two or too) Le Tour (log out and rethink your life if this needs explaining). Bad French and bad analysis will surely unintentionally follow. Read on, if you dare...

La Semaine Deux

i.imgur.com/97cy5vQ.png

i.imgur.com/P4IvntG.png

i.imgur.com/RiRBEBc.png

i.imgur.com/Hz1BBnb.png

i.imgur.com/x3UiALa.png

i.imgur.com/AXgfh3I.png

i.imgur.com/2xsq7we.png





Étape Huit | Pau - Bagnères-de-Luchon | 184km | Mountainous | Un Cat. 2, Deux Cat.1, un HC, et le un sprint intermédiaire (duh)

i.imgur.com/97cy5vQ.png

The Col du Tourmalet kicks off festivites with a bang with the break vying for 25 KoM points and the Souvenir Jacques Goddet. Speaking of KoMs I'd be shocked if we didn't get a new leader in the polka dots with 50 points up for grabs - and all, bar maybe one, should be contested by the break. We then get the long descent before the Cat. 2 Hourquette d'Ancizan and then two Cat. 1 mountains in the shape of the Cols d'Azet and de Peyresourde, two frequent Tour tests. Both, in fact, were last used in the Pla D'Adet stage in 2014, won of course by Rafal Majka. Both, particularly Peyresourde, are frequently used in Pau - Bagnères-de-Luchon (and vice versa) stages, or really any stage with one of these two famous Pyrenean host towns in its name.

i.imgur.com/OrgVBnG.png

'Ello 'ello 'ello. What do we have here? Yes the first Hors Catégorie climb of Le Tour 2016 and it's much earlier than the last two years - the legendary Col Du Tourmalet, nearly 20km averaging 7.4% gradient is a true test of the mettle for any rider, and as the first climb of the day it's brutal.

i.imgur.com/MKo31ZM.png

A very tough test up the Col d'Azet - should see a(nother) thinning of both break and bunch as we hit the penultimate climb. It'll be survival of the fittest on this 11km slog up this mountain, before we go back down to...

i.imgur.com/ROGeCRf.png

It's shorter than the previous two big ones but goddamn, it's tough. The final test before the common descent into Bagnères-de-Luchon is 7km but it's at 8% and never lets up, never gives you any respite, and it never drops below 5% gradient. We then begin the drop into Bagnères-de-Luchon, last a feature when Michael Rogers won his third GT stage of 2014 in smart fashion. It's downhill under the last 500m, where a flat sprint will ensue if someone hasn't gone solo. Bagnères-de-Luchon is also a favorite of one Tommy Voeckler.

***** The break
****
*** Nibali, Bardet, Contador
** Quintana, Froome, Porte, Aru, Valverde, Majka
* Pinot, Landa, Meintjes, Yates, van Garderen, Barguil, Rolland, Another climber


Étape Neuf | Vielha Val d'Aran - Andorre Arcalis | 185km | Mountainous | Un Cat. 2, Trois Cat.1, un HC, et le un sprint intermédiaire (duh)

i.imgur.com/P4IvntG.png

OhmygodOhmygodOhmygod. It's beautiful! The first Mountaintop finish of Le Tour de "France" is entirely in Spain and Andorra, and the entertainment is cranked up the 200%, hopefully. Andorre Arcalis has been used twice as a summit finish in Le Tour, won by Jan Ullrich and, erm, Brice Feillu, who now riders for Fortuneo-Vital Concept. I don't see him pulling off a repeat.

i.imgur.com/XrbF2SQ.png

What a last 47km. The short but steep Cat. 2 Côte de la Comella, the slightly longer but even steeper Cat. 1 Col de Beixalis (which may cause some PTSD for Froomebot) and finally the long way up to Andorre Arcalis, which is officially 10km at 7.2%, though you could make a case for it being tougher with plenty of stop/start hills in the leadup to the final 10km.

***** The break
**** Froome, Quintana, Contador
*** Aru, Nibali, Porte, Bardet, Pinot, van Garderen, Landa, Majka
** Meintjes, Yates, Poels, Barguil, Rodriguez, Rolland
* D. Martin, Costa, Everyone else who can climb


Étape Dix | Escaldes-Engordany - Revel | 197km | Weird Asian PCM Race-ish | Un Cat. 2, duex Cat.1, et le un sprint intermédiaire (duh)

i.imgur.com/RiRBEBc.png

Well the Tour organisers really want to appeal to the Asian masses, as this looks like something out of Langkawi or Qinghai Lake. Seriously they do have a twisted sense of humour with the riders ascending A Cat. 1 Andorran climb before 139km of flat stage stuff. Crazy, huh. We re enter France as the stage numbers look like double digits, the GC riders will be happy to recuperate after yesterday's summit finish and the sprinters and roleurs will be happy to be out of the Pyrenees. The opportunists, potentially fuelled by up to six consecutive (not happening) break wins, will be looking for a chance, if the teams of Sagan, Kristoff, or even the puncheurs, aren't on the prowl for the stage win. Mind you, it's almost 200km. Imagine that, I've just theorised about a straight week of break wins. You never know, if Froome takes yellow on stage 2 I can see it happening like last year. With no chance really of a break succeeding tomorrow this is the chance for a French yellow jersey for Bastille Day up Mont Ventoux

i.imgur.com/jxVjSgx.png

The initial response is these last 10km are made for Peter Sagan, but look again and I think your correct answer is.... Steven Cummings. Be it from the break or solo attack I think he can take the stage here. Seriously if the break is caught it could be a puncheur attacking, an all-around sprinter sprinting, or a late powerhouse opportunist. Tony Martin, anyone?

***** The break (full of Frenchmen)
****
*** Sagan, Alaphilippe, D. Martin, T. Martin , Cummings , Kristoff, Coquard, Greipel, Boasson Hagen, Mathews, Degenkolb
** Any other late attacker, Albasini, Gerrans, Gallopin, van Avermaet
* Groenewegen


Étape Onze | Carcassonne - Montpellier | 163km | Flat | Deux Cat. 4 et le un sprint intermédiaire (duh)

i.imgur.com/Hz1BBnb.png

Pan flat and a chance for the sprinters to get their mojo back, particularly if Kittel and Bouhanni among others have properly recovered. 99% a bunch sprint as Montpellier has become a hive of sprinter's glory.

i.imgur.com/vdDyT9Z.png

Slight drag to the finish but nothing to rule anyone in or out, similar to stage 3 in that all the main powerhouse fast men should be at the forefront. GC men will enjoy the day off.

***** Kittel, Greipel
**** Cavendish, Bouhanni, Kristoff, Degenkolb, Sagan
*** Coquard, A crazy leadout, Boasson Hagen
** Groenewegen
* Other sprinters, The break


Étape Douze | Montpellier - Mont Ventoux | 184km | Mountainous (____/) | Deux Cat. 4, un HC, et le un sprint intermédiaire (duh)

i.imgur.com/x3UiALa.png

And bang! Straight back into it with the Bald Mountain testing the mettle of every rider in the race once more on Bastille Day. Like 2014 we may well see a brief stint of a Frenchman in yellow after a likely French majority break on stage 10, depending on beforehand GC. Expect an assault from Rolland, Barguil, Bardet and Pinot for French pride and the usual majority french break for Bastille Day.

Chris Froome dominated last time out, back in his first TDF victory in 2013. It's a _____/ stage, but on Ventoux, it has to be, and you won't find anyone complaining about that. GC men should be fresh after two easier days and we should see a straight shoot-out between them, provided Team Sky aren't just trying to make friends like last year and the break battles it out.

i.imgur.com/awwn9ic.png

I'm sure you've all seen this picture a lot but I need it in the preview, and we all should take in the brutality of what every rider, from Froome to Kittel, will have to take on. 16km at a relentless 9%. Keep tuned to your TV for another real sign of who's hot and who's not, ahead of tomorrow's bumpy ITT. This will also be a test of the recuperation heading into the Alps later of the two BMC men in particular with doubts over them, but everyone really. Nibali and Valverde may start to fatigue, being the only GC men to finish the Giro, and in first and second respectively. Lucky for them, they're just super-domestiques here.

***** Froome, Quintana, Bardet, Pinot
**** Contador, Aru, Porte, Nibali, van Garderen, Majka
*** The break, Landa, Barguil, Rolland
** Meintjes, Yates
* Anyone else who can climb


Étape Treize | Bourg-Saint-Andéol - La Caverne du Pont-d'Arc | 38km | ITT (Hilly)

i.imgur.com/AXgfh3I.png

An ITT with a few climbs mean it's not the end of the world for the pure climbers but it's certainly going to be some seconds made for Nibali, Froome and Contador especially. Martin and Dumoulin amongst more will be on the hunt for a stage win, whilst Quintana and Pinot especially will be hoping all their good work on the TT bike works out.

i.imgur.com/ahAxLH0.png

The last 3km is all uphill and should see the climbers gain some time back, and so especially should suit the purer stage racers, like Froome, Nibali, Contador and van Garderen. Very hard prediction as theoretically only TT specialists and GC men will be in with a chance, but who knows who could surprise.

***** T. Dumoulin, Froome, Contador
**** Nibali, Kiryienka, Martin
*** Quintana, Pinot, Kelderman, Costa, van Garderen, Amador, Valverde, J. Izagirre
** Kreuziger, Bardet, Barguil, Aru, Alaphilippe, Castroviejo, Cancellara
* De Gendt, Gallopin, Costa, Cummings


Étape Quatorze | Montélimar - Villars-les-Dombes Parc des Oiseaux | 209km | Flat | Trois Cat. 4, et le un sprint intermédiaire (duh)

i.imgur.com/2xsq7we.png

The sprinters will have used the ITT as a bit of a rest and so should be in fine tune for the last day of the second week, particularly with the headwind finish a blow to the breakaway's chances.

i.imgur.com/ulc9iCp.png

Pan flat finish after a longer day of racing should see many of the same sprinters contesting as previous stages. Two big question marks hang over Bennett and Groenewegen, Bennett really suffered in the mountains in his debut last year whilst this is the first GT for Dylan Groenewegen, who is very much capable of surprising us all.

***** Kittel, Greipel
**** Cavendish, Bouhanni, Sagan, Kristoff, Degenkolb
*** Coquard, Mathews, A crazy leadout
** Boasson Hagen
* Bennett, Groenewegen, other sprinters, The break

Edited by jandal7 on 26-06-2016 23:45
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."

[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT] i.imgur.com/c85NSl6.png Xero Racing

i.imgur.com/PdCbs9I.png
i.imgur.com/RPIlJYr.png
5x i.imgur.com/wM6Wok5.png x5
i.imgur.com/olRsxdu.png
2x pcmdaily.com/images/mg/Awards2021/funniest21.png x2
2x i.imgur.com/TUidkLG.png x2
 
Riis123
Considering stage 8 probably won't be won from the GC and Arcalis is a) a MTF, the first and more importantly b) the last stage before a rest day, I think the stage will be controlled and won by the strongest in the race, most probable Froome or Quintana.

Arcalis has a kinda bad aura, its a pretty shallow climb, but with this very hard run-in and 200 km in the Pyrenees on the 3rd and last day here, it will probably and hopefully be a little closer to how the 1997 climb panned out than the 2009-spectacle. Still, to this day, Contador's most impressive climbing display in my opinion. Maybe along with Verbier. Scary shit.
 
sammyt93
That reminds me that I need to get a Userbar for my H2H League win. Pfft

Seeing as they aren't mentioned on stage 13 I'm guessing Malori and Dowsett are both not going or are they just not as good anymore as I remember?

Stage 10's profile looks like the organisers revealed it back to front and never bothered changing it. So much for them wanting to bring the KOM Jersey back to being won by a GC contender then if they are including a mountain like that just for breakaway contenders for the jersey to pick up big points without any motivation for the GC guys to go hard up it.

Didn't Brice win Andorra Arcalis from the break first time around? If so then there's a chance he could repeat it, especially as you've given the break 5*, though I agree it's unlikely he'd be the strongest climber in the break should he make it on that stage.

I could see stage 10 possibly seeing a break fest by the French, as I think Mont Ventoux is on Bastille day so as they are unlikely to win that we could see them try another Gallopin moment of wearing yellow on Bastille Day instead of getting the stage win.

If I'm right about that being Bastille day then surely Bardet, Pinot, Rolland and Barguil should get pushed up a * and a French Break should be a * higher than any other break win.

And if Bastille day isn't a big mountain stage then a French rider should be 5* with the normal stage favourites 4* instead due to how much they love it.
 
jandal7
sammyt93 wrote:
That reminds me that I need to get a Userbar for my H2H League win. Pfft

Seeing as they aren't mentioned on stage 13 I'm guessing Malori and Dowsett are both not going or are they just not as good anymore as I remember?

Stage 10's profile looks like the organisers revealed it back to front and never bothered changing it. So much for them wanting to bring the KOM Jersey back to being won by a GC contender then if they are including a mountain like that just for breakaway contenders for the jersey to pick up big points without any motivation for the GC guys to go hard up it.

Didn't Brice win Andorra Arcalis from the break first time around? If so then there's a chance he could repeat it, especially as you've given the break 5*, though I agree it's unlikely he'd be the strongest climber in the break should he make it on that stage.

I could see stage 10 possibly seeing a break fest by the French, as I think Mont Ventoux is on Bastille day so as they are unlikely to win that we could see them try another Gallopin moment of wearing yellow on Bastille Day instead of getting the stage win.

If I'm right about that being Bastille day then surely Bardet, Pinot, Rolland and Barguil should get pushed up a * and a French Break should be a * higher than any other break win.

And if Bastille day isn't a big mountain stage then a French rider should be 5* with the normal stage favourites 4* instead due to how much they love it.

Didn't see Malori or Dowsett in the provisional startlist so didn't put them down. Mont Ventoux is indeed Bastille Day, completely forgot about it. Yeah Brice did win from a break but I don't see him being good enough to win from a break. Will update it with Bastille stuff
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."

[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT] i.imgur.com/c85NSl6.png Xero Racing

i.imgur.com/PdCbs9I.png
i.imgur.com/RPIlJYr.png
5x i.imgur.com/wM6Wok5.png x5
i.imgur.com/olRsxdu.png
2x pcmdaily.com/images/mg/Awards2021/funniest21.png x2
2x i.imgur.com/TUidkLG.png x2
 
Riis123
Maori isn't riding and Dowsett is very unlikely, he is close to off the table IMO.

I think the ITT is very tricky. I say the top-3 on that particular stage will be Quintana, Contador and Froome in whatever order. I think its that hard - I could be mistaken. Wink Pinot and Dumoulin are also good picks. I say too hard for Martin. Peak Martin could probably have pulled it off tho.
 
jandal7
Riis123 wrote:
Maori isn't riding and Dowsett is very unlikely, he is close to off the table IMO.

I think the ITT is very tricky. I say the top-3 on that particular stage will be Quintana, Contador and Froome in whatever order. I think its that hard - I could be mistaken. Wink Pinot and Dumoulin are also good picks. I say too hard for Martin. Peak Martin could probably have pulled it off tho.

Yeah thought it was very tough so Quintana and Pinot get a boost. I'm probably being generous to Martin a bit, maybe he's more a three or four star
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."

[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT] i.imgur.com/c85NSl6.png Xero Racing

i.imgur.com/PdCbs9I.png
i.imgur.com/RPIlJYr.png
5x i.imgur.com/wM6Wok5.png x5
i.imgur.com/olRsxdu.png
2x pcmdaily.com/images/mg/Awards2021/funniest21.png x2
2x i.imgur.com/TUidkLG.png x2
 
Riis123
Probably a four I'd say all things considered. After all Ventoux is the day before.... Pfft That probably won't make his chances worse.
 
Riis123
But it is indeed due to Tinkoff wanting to support Sagan more that Jesper Hansen isn't in, he has confirmed that. I still hold on to the little possibility that Peter has a little saying.....
Why am I already up again? Damn

Edit: https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bouha...ign=buffer

A man of my liking.
 
Riis123
Quintana, Valv, Gorka, Ion, Anacona, D. Moreno, Jesus Herrada, Oliveira, Erviti.

Castro left out which is highly surprising. It was effectively a battle among him, Jesus and Ion for that spot, I would have preferred Castro over Jesus. Oliveira won over Ventoso. Ion is here and I would like to him to have a protected role and see what he has got, similar to Astana's Rosa or Sky's Thomas. Valverde to do his thing, whatever that is.
 
jandal7
Riis123 wrote:
Quintana, Valv, Gorka, Ion, Anacona, D. Moreno, Jesus Herrada, Oliveira, Erviti.

Castro left out which is highly surprising. It was effectively a battle among him, Jesus and Ion for that spot, I would have preferred Castro over Jesus. Oliveira won over Ventoso. Ion is here and I would like to him to have a protected role and see what he has got, similar to Astana's Rosa or Sky's Thomas. Valverde to do his thing, whatever that is.

Dammit, better change my velogames, thought Castro was a right steal at 4 points Sad
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."

[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT] i.imgur.com/c85NSl6.png Xero Racing

i.imgur.com/PdCbs9I.png
i.imgur.com/RPIlJYr.png
5x i.imgur.com/wM6Wok5.png x5
i.imgur.com/olRsxdu.png
2x pcmdaily.com/images/mg/Awards2021/funniest21.png x2
2x i.imgur.com/TUidkLG.png x2
 
Riis123
There seems to be many steals at 6 points, don't you worry Wink
 
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