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News in May
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 11-05-2016 18:03
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
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No matter what, it will be better with a start in Italy. Plain and simple!
Good food, good wine, good weather and above all, the best terrain in the world. But money talks. |
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 11-05-2016 20:09
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Riis123 wrote:
No matter what, it will be better with a start in Italy. Plain and simple!
Good food, good wine, good weather and above all, the best terrain in the world. But money talks.
Japan idea is just ridiculous. But what was wrong a start in Netherlands this year..great atmosphere ..so many people came outside to watch race. |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 11-05-2016 21:04
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Guido Mukk wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
No matter what, it will be better with a start in Italy. Plain and simple!
Good food, good wine, good weather and above all, the best terrain in the world. But money talks.
Japan idea is just ridiculous. But what was wrong a start in Netherlands this year..great atmosphere ..so many people came outside to watch race.
Great atmosphere as always when you start abroad, especially in NL and GB, Germany will be at that same level, but the racing was lacklustre. In Italy, you always have the ability to throw some hills in. |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 11-05-2016 21:28
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
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Here we go back to the "hills make everything better" 
Just have the peloton tackled the Stelvio 21 times a day for 21 days and be done with it!
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 11-05-2016 21:28
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Riis123 wrote:
Guido Mukk wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
No matter what, it will be better with a start in Italy. Plain and simple!
Good food, good wine, good weather and above all, the best terrain in the world. But money talks.
Japan idea is just ridiculous. But what was wrong a start in Netherlands this year..great atmosphere ..so many people came outside to watch race.
Great atmosphere as always when you start abroad, especially in NL and GB, Germany will be at that same level, but the racing was lacklustre. In Italy, you always have the ability to throw some hills in.
germany isn't that flat..ride Amstel gold for starters if you want tome gaps at Netherland.. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 12-05-2016 07:22
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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Guido Mukk wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
No matter what, it will be better with a start in Italy. Plain and simple!
Good food, good wine, good weather and above all, the best terrain in the world. But money talks.
Japan idea is just ridiculous. But what was wrong a start in Netherlands this year..great atmosphere ..so many people came outside to watch race.
Giro d Italia 
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 08:34
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 12-05-2016 07:39
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Guido Mukk wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
No matter what, it will be better with a start in Italy. Plain and simple!
Good food, good wine, good weather and above all, the best terrain in the world. But money talks.
Japan idea is just ridiculous. But what was wrong a start in Netherlands this year..great atmosphere ..so many people came outside to watch race.
Giro d Italia
Potato..Potato..
They started that 1965.. and I think many mountain stages have passed borders even before that. These days it's again that win ..win thing. Giro gets money and Denmark..Germany ..can feel Giro atmosphere.
It is still Giro d'Italia ..best GT. |
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| Ton1Mart1n |
Posted on 12-05-2016 08:28
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Domestique
Posts: 400
Joined: 14-06-2011
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Japan can have their own grand tour and call it イタリアのツアー.
Thinks its a great honour to visit other European countries but Asia is just way out of any league.
When they visited Denmark few years ago I remember the great enthusiasm and atmosphere. Lovely!
“When it’s hurting you, that’s when you can make a difference”
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 12-05-2016 08:35
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
PCM$: 1348.00
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The Giro in Japan is almost as ridiculous as Australia in the Eurovision song contest.
Purely a money making exercise with no thought about the wellbeing of the cyclists.
I'm all for Grand Departs but they should be within reason. But then again the World Cups in Russia & Qatar prove that the only deciding factor when choosing a venue is money. |
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 12-05-2016 09:49
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Ton1Mart1n wrote:
When they visited Denmark few years ago I remember the great enthusiasm and atmosphere. Lovely!
Exactly my point.
Japan is still ridiculous idea. |
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| Strydz |
Posted on 12-05-2016 10:06
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Team Leader
Posts: 5894
Joined: 02-08-2011
PCM$: 1625.00
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Riis123 wrote:
Guido Mukk wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
No matter what, it will be better with a start in Italy. Plain and simple!
Good food, good wine, good weather and above all, the best terrain in the world. But money talks.
Japan idea is just ridiculous. But what was wrong a start in Netherlands this year..great atmosphere ..so many people came outside to watch race.
Great atmosphere as always when you start abroad, especially in NL and GB, Germany will be at that same level, but the racing was lacklustre. In Italy, you always have the ability to throw some hills in.
That is your opinion, the first 3 days in NL were fine with the prologue being a nice close affair, the first flat day was just a plain old sprint stage but looked like some good atmosphere and the second day was some good racing even if the result was expected. Nothing wrong with flat starts to races and it gives time for the peloton to settle down which is exactly what happened with no GC guys getting knocked out due to a nervous peloton on technical roads.
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 12-05-2016 10:18
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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Guido Mukk wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Guido Mukk wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
No matter what, it will be better with a start in Italy. Plain and simple!
Good food, good wine, good weather and above all, the best terrain in the world. But money talks.
Japan idea is just ridiculous. But what was wrong a start in Netherlands this year..great atmosphere ..so many people came outside to watch race.
Giro d Italia
Potato..Potato..
They started that 1965.. and I think many mountain stages have passed borders even before that. These days it's again that win ..win thing. Giro gets money and Denmark..Germany ..can feel Giro atmosphere.
It is still Giro d'Italia ..best GT.
Yeah, i t makes perfect sense from financial and publicity point of view. From my point of view as spectator though, i dont care about Netherlands in tour of Italy, i want 21 stages in Italy. Just a preference.
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| TimoCycling |
Posted on 12-05-2016 10:18
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Sprinter
Posts: 1765
Joined: 27-08-2012
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People saying the race was lack lustre in NL are partly right. The prologue was very exciting, but the other two stages were basic sprint stages. The thing is, every GT has sprint stages, whether they are in the starting country or in Italy it doesn't really matter. You have to admit the atmosphere was brilliant in NL.
There are, however, options to make for a more interesting race in NL, like riding near the sea to get echelons (like last year's Tour) or riding in the hilly south. It all depends on the region that captures the start of the GT. This time it was a flat region where nothing really could be done to make it more than just a flat stage.
All in all I think starts of GT's in other countries is not bad, as long as its not too much travelling and physically exhausting for the riders. I think Japan is too far. I mean, it would be cool ofcourse finishing on Mt. Fuji, but it's a huge operation to travel all bikes and everything over to Japan and back to Italy in a few days. Also the two restdays don't make up for the jetlag I think.
Edited by TimoCycling on 12-05-2016 11:17
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 12-05-2016 10:20
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Here we go back to the "hills make everything better"
Just have the peloton tackled the Stelvio 21 times a day for 21 days and be done with it!
Your post doesn't even warrant a reply, but whatever. What did you think about the hilly stage in 2014 in GB?
Stage making and racing goes hand in hand - it has been proven time and time again, but on this forum, the general consensus is it just is as it is and be done. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 12-05-2016 10:21
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
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I cant even discuss that Japan thing, that is far beyond my understanding, somebody saw a possible income and went mad.
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 12-05-2016 10:23
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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TimoCycling wrote:
People saying the race was lack lustre in NL are partly right. The prologue was very exciting, but the other two stages were basic sprint stages. The thing is, every GT has sprint stages, whether they are in the starting country or in Italy it doesn't really matter. You have to admit the atmosphere was brilliant in NL.
There are, however, options to make for an more interesting race in NL, like riding near the sea to get echelons (like last year's Tour) or riding in the hilly south. It all depends on the region that captures the start of the GT. This time it was a flat region where nothing really could be done to make it more than just a flat stage.
All in all I think starts of GT's in other countries is not bad, as long as its not too much travelling and physically exhausting for the riders. I think Japan is too far. I mean, it would be cool ofcourse finishing on Mt. Fuji, but it's a huge operation to travel all bikes and everything over to Japan and back to Italy in a few days. Also the two restdays don't make up for the jetlag I think.
Good post.
Every stage has sprint stages, but two in a row on a weekend will always be too much in my opinion. I think prologue/time trial - flat sprint stage - hilly stage is the right and best pace of a GT. |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 12-05-2016 12:50
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
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Riis123 wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
Here we go back to the "hills make everything better"
Just have the peloton tackled the Stelvio 21 times a day for 21 days and be done with it!
Your post doesn't even warrant a reply, but whatever. What did you think about the hilly stage in 2014 in GB?
Stage making and racing goes hand in hand - it has been proven time and time again, but on this forum, the general consensus is it just is as it is and be done.
and yet you did reply... erm...
Hey guys, anyone got a spare sense of humor around?
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 12-05-2016 12:54
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
Here we go back to the "hills make everything better"
Just have the peloton tackled the Stelvio 21 times a day for 21 days and be done with it!
Your post doesn't even warrant a reply, but whatever. What did you think about the hilly stage in 2014 in GB?
Stage making and racing goes hand in hand - it has been proven time and time again, but on this forum, the general consensus is it just is as it is and be done.
and yet you did reply... erm...
Hey guys, anyone got a spare sense of humor around?
As much as your post was humorous, it is also how you feel about the subject |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 12-05-2016 13:05
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
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So you're making assumptions about my personal opinion about what exactly: Whether hills bring action? Whether foreign starts are bad? Whether GT's have too many sprints?
You know, i'm sure you're 100% correct about me because you know me so well.
As i've been pulled in here we go.
Whether hills bring action
Depends what you call action. Looking back at the Tour to '92 and '82 when they last opened with hills aborad the hills went to breakaways in relatively unexciting fashion with minor to no GC action. Other early hills see relatively minimal action beyond shedding those well out of form. Guess it can depend whether it's a hill, a la the Ardennes, or a small mountain because the mountain has the length and steepness to pull the GC boys fowards.
Now is that more exciting? Not inherently unless they decide to go for it on a small mountain on day 2 or 3. I'd rather see the sprinters and their teams go 100% rather than GC teams and riders giving just enough to stay safe.
I'd actually rather see sprint stages with technical finishes and some cobbles around.
Whether foreign starts are bad
It's just no, foreign starts are good for a number of reasons. Financially of course but they also engage a lot more fans directly and provide huge boosts to regions interests in cycling. It also keeps things fresh allowing for new routes and places to show off. Starting aborad can also bring along riders who would otherwise skip the race, race a GT on home soil? What rider is going to say no! It can incentivise others to go on the attack in front of home crowds.
The only downsides really are the transfer. Now the TDF does this well and just has the race ride back to France, as does the Vuelta in it's rare excursions. Giro has the problem of it's Mountains up north and needs to get somewhat southwards in the race, so riding from way north all the way south doesn' help them make a route. So if they are going to transfer might as well go all in from elsewhere in Europe.
Whether GT's have too many sprints
And Paris-Roubaix has too many non-cobble roads and LBL has too many descents
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| Kirchen_75 |
Posted on 12-05-2016 13:18
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7702
Joined: 24-07-2009
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This conversation is still going on? 
I like cobbles so IMO Tour de France should ditch all the mountain stages and make 21 stages in Northern France and West Vlaanderen. Yay!
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
