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The Difficult Topics
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 22-03-2016 12:22
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At the "Terror" part...
Germany also has a much bigger problem with left-wing terrorism than with right-wing terrorism.
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| jph27 |
Posted on 22-03-2016 12:24
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Paul23 wrote:
At the "Terror" part...
Germany also has a much bigger problem with left-wing terrorism than with right-wing terrorism.
No it doesn't. Last Red Army Faction attack was in 1989 - numerous neo-Nazi attacks since then. |
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| Dippofix |
Posted on 22-03-2016 12:32
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Paul23 wrote:
At the "Terror" part...
Germany also has a much bigger problem with left-wing terrorism than with right-wing terrorism.
That's just complete and utter bullshit. In 2015, there were 924 attacks on refugee housing. That's roughly 2,5 every day.
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 22-03-2016 12:44
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First of, you don't need to be part of the RAF, to be a left-wing extremist. We have the MG and the RAZ nowadays.
Just a few...
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| Kirchen_75 |
Posted on 22-03-2016 12:46
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Paul23 wrote:
Kirchen_75 wrote:
Wow Paul that is some disgraceful things there, I can't understand how your country can't secure you from such animals. Truly shocking that. I would be upset too.
Sincere. I didn't know such bad things are happening everyday but the media don't talk about it for coz PC.... |
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| roturn |
Posted on 22-03-2016 12:51
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Please don't come up with such statistics. They don't show a good comparison when not having all the background.
For example are several things unknown.
What did they take as source.
What is a left crime?
What is a right crime?
And so on.
I have seen lots of examples where basically same things that were counted towards one side, got ignored or not counted on the other side. Hence those statistics miss far too many data to really be trustworthy. |
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| Dippofix |
Posted on 22-03-2016 12:54
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Paul23 wrote:
First of, you don't need to be part of the RAF, to be a left-wing extremist. We have the MG and the RAZ nowadays.
Just a few...
It's obvious that things like trespassing and resistance will be quite high for the left-wing - in most cases it's leftists blocking nazi marches, not the other way around. And the reason why the number of right-wing arsonists is so low is that burning down a refugees home doesn't make you right-wing nowadays. Essentially those statistics say more about the way crime is interpreted than the way crime is commited. Also shout out for quoting the biggest German conspiracy theory forum, trustworthy sources are always cool to see. 
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| roturn |
Posted on 22-03-2016 12:59
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The BKA btw had noted about 5 times more right-wing crimes than left wing ones in first half of 2015.
And I repeat what I wrote above. This 5:1 ratio doesn't say anything really. It's a lot more behind those numbers.
As dippo also said, right-wing movement obviously leads to left -wing counter movement. Hence statistics go up in many ways. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 26-11-2024 14:55
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 22-03-2016 12:59
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I think Dippo that you are a bit too much on denial side and as Dusen said, that actually cause a lot of problems, as we are afraid to name things sometimes, which should be first move prior to actually start solving the problems.
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| Dusen |
Posted on 22-03-2016 13:00
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Dippofix wrote:
Dusen wrote:
Terror Germany has a bigger problem with right wing terrorism than with islamic terrorism. Goes to show what happens to you when you don't behave like dicks...
Sharia law above the countries law No muslim I have ever spoken to supports that, but could you link your statistics anyway?
Crime Totally a muslim problem
Rape See above
Threats What?
Discrimination against jews, gays and other minorities Again this isn't a muslim problem, look at the racist parties that are doing well all over europe...
No respect for women rights Rape in marriage was legal in Germany up until 1997, and the likes of Horst Seehofer (First minister of Bavaria and part of the government coalition of Germany) voted to keep it that way. This certainly isn't a muslim problem.
No go zones for medics, because the areas are controlled by gangs Again, links?
Too many people on social benefits, causing great trouble for countries money whise Tax the rich properly, then that won't be much of a problem anyway. More money went lost through tax evasion (ca. 100.000.000.000€) in Germany in 2015 than on the refugee crisis (ca. 10.000.000.000€).
Germany surely has a problem with their very aggresive right wing groups, but the general trend around europe is that the terror threat are coming from somewhere else, i hope you can aknowledge that given recent events.
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18% of muslims in Denmark agree or very much agree that sharia should be implemented in the danish law. The analysis Institute Capacent.
https://www.dr.dk/...sharia-lov
Compared to France and Sweden (perhaps other countries to), Denmark doesn't have as big problems with islam, so i can only imagine what the acceptence of Sharia might be in other european nations.
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Sweden is the rape capitol of the europe, they didn't used to be nr. one on that shamefull list, but they have taken in a lot of people who was in need of help, since the 70´and 80´. and they have experienced a huge spike in rape cases since, comitted by swedish citizens with a non ethnic background. Does this mean that all muslims rape, ofc. not. But you have to admit, that when the majority of the rapers are non ethnic swedes, then there might be something wrong.
Sweden has btw. mostly taken people in from Africa and the middle east.
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Crime and Threats
Crime is not a muslim problem only, but when you look at the amount of people they are, and compare it with the amount of crime they commit, it is shocking.
I answered rape above so i will avoid repeating the same thing here. Just like with rape, the muslims take up a lot more jail cells than ethnic danes do. The danish government made a count up which is written about in this article.
https://www.bt.dk/...udlaending
1.439 out of 4.095 in danish prisons are either foreigners with no affiliation with Denmark, immigrants or children of immigrants. that's 1 out of 3. A scary number i think.
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I'am talking about day to day discrimination, not voting for parties who have a political believe that fewer muslims would be better. There is a huge difference between insulting, and attacking minorities and then voting for a party who trough a political process want to implement change. At least i belive so.
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1997 is quite some time ago now. And my impression of germans are that they value women rights as much as the next guy in western europe. I don't speak german, but i think you will find the same pattern when it comes to rape, as you do in Sweden(If you have a source regarding rape in germany, please post it  )
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No go zones
https://www.expres...me-rockets
Please have a look at the 60 minutes video i posted(The police doesn't even dare enter)
https://www.youtu...rtKraychik
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Social benefits
So the rich are supposed to pay for the larger group of new germans, swedes or danes that are constantly arriving. That is not a sustanible way of dealing with things. If you want countries with welfare, you need people who can pay for that welfare.
Edited by Dusen on 22-03-2016 13:03
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 22-03-2016 13:01
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Dippofix wrote:
Paul23 wrote:
First of, you don't need to be part of the RAF, to be a left-wing extremist. We have the MG and the RAZ nowadays.
Just a few...
It's obvious that things like trespassing and resistance will be quite high for the left-wing - in most cases it's leftists blocking nazi marches, not the other way around. And the reason why the number of right-wing arsonists is so low is that burning down a refugees home doesn't make you right-wing nowadays. Essentially those statistics say more about the way crime is interpreted than the way crime is commited. Also shout out for quoting the biggest German conspiracy theory forum, trustworthy sources are always cool to see.
The stats are for the german "Verfassungsschutz". Sorry if these stats don't are like you want them to and hence they are not valid. I'm sorry for that. Also I think that our left-wing extremists are even dumber than our neo-nazis.
Neo-Nazis may follow an ideology, which I don't agree with, but at least they manage to have their demonstrations rightfully registered, while the RAZ and the MG just provoke the neo-nazis, by attacking a registered demonstration. ALso attacking the Army isn't really intelligent either.
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| Selwink |
Posted on 22-03-2016 13:04
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Would you be able to link to the original source, so the Verfassungschutz, instead of taking a picture from a site which may well have made this up? Not saying it's incorrect, but it would certainly make your argument stronger.
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 22-03-2016 13:13
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https://www.verfa...taten.html
https://www.verfa...taten.html
We are talking about "Gewalttaten" here.
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| Dippofix |
Posted on 22-03-2016 13:17
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Back in the early 2000s, the NPD (the post 1945 version of the NSDAP) was supposed to be banned. It turned out that wasn't possible. Why? Basically the Verfassungsschutz (which means "protection of constitution, btw) was so involved in running the party that it could not be deemed unconstitutional anymore. Employees of the Verfassungsschutz also played a rather big part in supporting the NSU, which killed at least 10 people in the early to mid 2000s. The Verfassungschutz might not be the best source when it comes to right-wing extremism...
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| Dusen |
Posted on 22-03-2016 13:20
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I think when it comes to solutions the following things might be worth trying out.
-An education for preachers of islam. I know they have that somewhere in Europe, i think every country should have that. Most priest today are educated as well.
-Strict control on preachers with hardcore islamic ideas traveling in from other countries, and a quick ban on those, so they can't spread their twisted ways (UK i believe is doing this already)
-Education - Much more focus on children who come from muslim families. Their parents might not be able to help them with their homework, and that might result in them not doing well in school. politicians could implement laws, so schools could keep some students with difficulties, so they could help them keep up with the rest of the class. Perhaps organize some help for homework in the local mosques.
(The suggestion regarding the school keeping students for a bit longer could also be implemented for ethnic europeans.)
-Maybe have a secular imam talk with the new refugees arriving, about western culture, to help them adjust. |
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| Selwink |
Posted on 22-03-2016 13:20
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Right, then my question is: why the emphasis on violent acts only? The text you linked to mentions a total number of 16559 criminal acts motivated by the extreme right, while for extreme left it's ''just'' 4491.
For violence as well:
Mit 990 (2013: 801) Gewalttaten ist die Zahl der rechtsextremistisch motivierten Gewalttaten um 23,6 % angestiegen
Straftaten mit linksextremistischem Hintergrund, darunter 995 Gewalttaten
Which is about equal.
Edit:
In other news: rumours of evacuation of the Tihange nuclear plant. Oh sh*t
Edited by Selwink on 22-03-2016 13:23
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| Dippofix |
Posted on 22-03-2016 13:21
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Paul23 wrote:
Dippofix wrote:
Paul23 wrote:
First of, you don't need to be part of the RAF, to be a left-wing extremist. We have the MG and the RAZ nowadays.
Just a few...
It's obvious that things like trespassing and resistance will be quite high for the left-wing - in most cases it's leftists blocking nazi marches, not the other way around. And the reason why the number of right-wing arsonists is so low is that burning down a refugees home doesn't make you right-wing nowadays. Essentially those statistics say more about the way crime is interpreted than the way crime is commited. Also shout out for quoting the biggest German conspiracy theory forum, trustworthy sources are always cool to see.
The stats are for the german "Verfassungsschutz". Sorry if these stats don't are like you want them to and hence they are not valid. I'm sorry for that. Also I think that our left-wing extremists are even dumber than our neo-nazis.
Neo-Nazis may follow an ideology, which I don't agree with, but at least they manage to have their demonstrations rightfully registered, while the RAZ and the MG just provoke the neo-nazis, by attacking a registered demonstration. ALso attacking the Army isn't really intelligent either.
The RAZ commited four explosive attacks, with zero casualties, the last one five years ago. They are certainly a massive danger. The MG was dissolved in 1991 (EDIT: and was non-violent anyway). That's certainly worse than the NSU or anyone burning down refugee housing.
Edited by Dippofix on 22-03-2016 13:26
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| Dippofix |
Posted on 22-03-2016 13:23
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3906
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Dusen wrote:
I think when it comes to solutions the following things might be worth trying out.
-An education for preachers of islam. I know they have that somewhere in Europe, i think every country should have that. Most priest today are educated as well.
-Strict control on preachers with hardcore islamic ideas traveling in from other countries, and a quick ban on those, so they can't spread their twisted ways (UK i believe is doing this already)
-Education - Much more focus on children who come from muslim families. Their parents might not be able to help them with their homework, and that might result in them not doing well in school. politicians could implement laws, so schools could keep some students with difficulties, so they could help them keep up with the rest of the class. Perhaps organize some help for homework in the local mosques.
(The suggestion regarding the school keeping students for a bit longer could also be implemented for ethnic europeans.)
-Maybe have a secular imam talk with the new refugees arriving, about western culture, to help them adjust.
Sounds like some solid suggestions. I think one of the main problems is that muslim immigrants tend to be working class, thus excluding them from a lot of opportunities. If education can be done right, a lot of problems can be solved.
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| Dusen |
Posted on 22-03-2016 13:30
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Dippofix wrote:
Dusen wrote:
I think when it comes to solutions the following things might be worth trying out.
-An education for preachers of islam. I know they have that somewhere in Europe, i think every country should have that. Most priest today are educated as well.
-Strict control on preachers with hardcore islamic ideas traveling in from other countries, and a quick ban on those, so they can't spread their twisted ways (UK i believe is doing this already)
-Education - Much more focus on children who come from muslim families. Their parents might not be able to help them with their homework, and that might result in them not doing well in school. politicians could implement laws, so schools could keep some students with difficulties, so they could help them keep up with the rest of the class. Perhaps organize some help for homework in the local mosques.
(The suggestion regarding the school keeping students for a bit longer could also be implemented for ethnic europeans.)
-Maybe have a secular imam talk with the new refugees arriving, about western culture, to help them adjust.
Sounds like some solid suggestions. I think one of the main problems is that muslim immigrants tend to be working class, thus excluding them from a lot of opportunities. If education can be done right, a lot of problems can be solved.
Yes education is key i believe. Also my personal opinion regarding extremism no matter if it's muslim or neo nazi is that people with low income and education are more vulnerable to the extreme thinking these groups stand for .
Also I think the companies in Europe(at least in Denmark) also have to change a bit. At least in Denmark, it is easier to get a job if you have a ethnic danish name, than if your name is Muhammed. That needs to change! |
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 22-03-2016 13:44
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Dusen wrote:
Dippofix wrote:
Dusen wrote:
I think when it comes to solutions the following things might be worth trying out.
-An education for preachers of islam. I know they have that somewhere in Europe, i think every country should have that. Most priest today are educated as well.
-Strict control on preachers with hardcore islamic ideas traveling in from other countries, and a quick ban on those, so they can't spread their twisted ways (UK i believe is doing this already)
-Education - Much more focus on children who come from muslim families. Their parents might not be able to help them with their homework, and that might result in them not doing well in school. politicians could implement laws, so schools could keep some students with difficulties, so they could help them keep up with the rest of the class. Perhaps organize some help for homework in the local mosques.
(The suggestion regarding the school keeping students for a bit longer could also be implemented for ethnic europeans.)
-Maybe have a secular imam talk with the new refugees arriving, about western culture, to help them adjust.
Sounds like some solid suggestions. I think one of the main problems is that muslim immigrants tend to be working class, thus excluding them from a lot of opportunities. If education can be done right, a lot of problems can be solved.
Yes education is key i believe. Also my personal opinion regarding extremism no matter if it's muslim or neo nazi is that people with low income and education are more vulnerable to the extreme thinking these groups stand for .
Also I think the companies in Europe(at least in Denmark) also have to change a bit. At least in Denmark, it is easier to get a job if you have a ethnic danish name, than if your name is Muhammed. That needs to change!
People will more often that not favour someone that shares more of their "national identity. This applies worldwide. And especially to low-skilled jobs where many candidates are very much equal in skills needed for the job, in high level skill jobs this applies far less. I can't see how this can be changed.
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