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Career - U23 team
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| Adrim |
Posted on 09-12-2015 13:18
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Junior Rider
Posts: 33
Joined: 26-11-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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Hello,
I still quite don't get the interest of supporting the cost of youth development team on pcm 2015. If it's just young riders that you can contract at the end of season, it's possible to do that with other U23 teams as well (If i'm right) so what's the opportunity of having your own ?
The only purpose I could see is :
If the report on the potential for the runners in your U23 team is really precise, it could work kind of like a "close monitoring" for a bunch of runners. But I'm not sure it's the case. => Apparently from my experience it's not. potential shown is like "quick evaluation" in youth development
Thanks for sharing ideas/comments/tips/what you do, I'm kind of lost regarding the U23 
Adrim
Edited by Adrim on 08-01-2016 12:26
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 08:49
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| Adrim |
Posted on 10-12-2015 14:13
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Junior Rider
Posts: 33
Joined: 26-11-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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One thing I can already share (at least from my own experience) : I chose to start a U23 team - world recruitment - I deliberately chose a size of 9 young riders because it was apparently cheaper (4.5K/month if I remember correctly) => apparently it doesn't work... cost is 10K/month.
Edited by Adrim on 26-01-2016 14:00
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| jandal7 |
Posted on 20-12-2015 08:40
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World Champion
Posts: 11392
Joined: 17-12-2014
PCM$: 1020.00
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Depends what division I'm in, for a 1.0 multiplier I usually go 8/world forWT squad. Maybe higher numbers depending on budget and what kind of talent pool is there.
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."
[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT]  Xero Racing
5x  x5
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| Adrim |
Posted on 21-12-2015 09:49
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Junior Rider
Posts: 33
Joined: 26-11-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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Hello Jandal7,
Thanks for your answer ! 
I would love more details though 
Like :
- From what I understand scouts in the staff are the one recruiting the U23, have you seen substantial differences with "better scouts" ? IMO don't seems to have any significative impact (however only tried with 'national' scout (costing ~6k/month). The size of the roster seems to impact more (maybe because it improves the random probability of having a good rider).
I'm currently on my 4th season with Radio Populare in WT division (close to bankrupty xD) second year of supporting the cost of the U23 team but I never once hired a rider for my main squad.... So i really wonder if I'm doing something wrong.
Edited by Adrim on 13-01-2016 09:22
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 21-12-2015 09:55
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 9099
Joined: 13-03-2013
PCM$: 2100.00
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I´m pretty sure you are able to sign U23 riders yourself...
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| Adrim |
Posted on 21-12-2015 10:31
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Junior Rider
Posts: 33
Joined: 26-11-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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Ho maybe I was not clear, I know how to sign them it's just that they all suck so basically I always end up signing riders from other U23 squad/free rider. And since it's possible to do that I don't really see anymore interests of having my own U23 squad.
Edited by Adrim on 13-01-2016 09:23
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| Adrim |
Posted on 23-12-2015 09:38
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Junior Rider
Posts: 33
Joined: 26-11-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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Just started 5th season with Radio Populare. I'm in WT division since last season (we ranked 11th last season and 3th on superprestige thanks to Ulissi, Lobato and Koneg ).
Canceled my previous U23 team.
Hired a scout specialized in TT and created a new U23 with focus on TT. Decided a roaster of 8 riders/country recruitment (don't wanna put to much budget into it since I'm still not convince it's that much useful).
I'll keep you posted how it goes, apparently the best rider recruited has a potential of 4-7.
Quick questions/thought :
1) I intend to recruit more scouts this year (only have one right now) but I don't find on the interface the scout's specialization (Only see it the moment I hire him). possible to see it when assigning
2) Does the scout's specialization influences the note he gives to rider (more acurate in his domain) ? Or will he just scout more riders from that category (eg. TT scout will evaluate a higher %tage of TT specialist). ==> tips from game : apparently scouts are more accurate in their domain. still not sure it's significant.
Really enjoying the game but still not really convinced with the scouting/youth development part though.
Edited by Adrim on 26-01-2016 13:20
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| Marcin |
Posted on 23-12-2015 13:06
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Amateur
Posts: 21
Joined: 26-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Nice thread, I'm intrested in your observations, so share ifyou are so kind. Pitty no more feedback from communicty, but I'm going to review the threads, maybe there lays more tips regarding scouts as for now on - smae like you - I see no big sens in having those.
Brgds,
Marcin
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| Adrim |
Posted on 07-01-2016 12:43
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Junior Rider
Posts: 33
Joined: 26-11-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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I'm now in my 6th season with Radio populare, we were rank 5th in WT last season and currently second.
After changing differents factors regarding U23 squad :
- size of the roster
- scouts
- focus
In my opinion it's not worth the cost mostly because you can't decide who will be recruited in U23.
Q: Is there a way ?.
The only upside I can see is that you get a list of riders originated from the country of your sponsor in the case of a country recruitment (which could sometimes be useful, but not so much since you're mainly looking for futur stars).
Nevertheless I never recruited a single rider from my U23 to my main squad.
My advise would be : don't create U23 team at all. Instead go for more scouts and close monitoring (Still not sure how the scout reputation influence the game though - see Q2 previously).
Edited by Adrim on 11-01-2016 10:45
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| sammyt93 |
Posted on 07-01-2016 17:19
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3634
Joined: 03-07-2012
PCM$: 300.00
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I guess it depends on what kind of squad you've got, for a squad like Orica who have a great importance on Aussie riders then a nationalistic Under 23 team could be useful as that way you will get some of the more talented Aussie riders there and whilst they might not be world beaters they could be World Tour filler kind of similar to how they've used Meyer, Howard, Clarke etc.
I guess that's kinda how Garmin used to operate before the merger with Cannondale, having a bunch of Americans to support foreign leaders like Dan Martin or how BMC had Cadel as their leader and guys like TJVG, Phinney, Bookwalter as the next level down.
I've not played multiple season career on PCM15 so can't say if having a dev team means you get info on more young riders but I imagine that's the kind of scenario's where it would be most useful, to find the domestiques and super domestiques for a national focussed squad whilst looking for your leaders in other ways or getting lucky in finding a potential leader come through, not using it to find the next Sagan or Froome but a bunch of guys on the level of say Bardet or Talansky or Renshaw.
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| Adrim |
Posted on 08-01-2016 10:57
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Junior Rider
Posts: 33
Joined: 26-11-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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Thanks for your input sammyt93, yeah it's true that my squad is not really focus on a single country (Sponsor is Commwalt bank right now - Australia). So it probably diminish a little bit the value of U23 squad.
However in career mode your sponsor does'nt care if your squad is filled with riders from his country. What matters in the evaluation is to have "star" that can represent him. So with a random recruitment of the U23 it seems difficult to really use any of them significantly (regarding sponsoring at least) unless you get lucky and get a real 6-8 rider in your U23.
IMO for sponsor happiness it's better to recruit 1 "star" rider (same country as sponsor) costing let's say around 50K/month than recruiting 5 or 10 riders from your U23 squad since they will have no impact whatsoever on sponsor happiness unless you transform one of them in a real star during the season (but to do that you need good potential).
For instance last season out of 14 riders - I had only 1 x 5-8 and 2 x 4-7 and seeing their evolution it seems that these evaluations are like the "quick" ones (so I would need to confirm their potential with close monitoring but then it's often possible to find riders way more promising to assign scout on).
Edited by Adrim on 13-01-2016 09:51
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| Adrim |
Posted on 13-01-2016 10:06
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Junior Rider
Posts: 33
Joined: 26-11-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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Hello,
I'm now in my 7th season (still commwalt bank sponsor); we are in March and currently 1st in WT (2th in superprestige). I don't support a U23 squad this year but I hired 6 scouts with different specialization.
Something I didn't though about before : it's not possible to do close monitoring on rider who have sign a contract (U23 included!), however that include your own U23 squad (If I'm not mistaking) so all my previous opinions about U23 squad still remains.
Marcin wrote:
Nice thread, I'm intrested in your observations, so share ifyou are so kind. Pitty no more feedback from communicty, but I'm going to review the threads, maybe there lays more tips regarding scouts as for now on - smae like you - I see no big sens in having those.
Thks, feel free to add your own observations always nice
Edited by Adrim on 18-01-2016 15:47
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| Adrim |
Posted on 26-01-2016 13:36
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Junior Rider
Posts: 33
Joined: 26-11-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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I'm now in the 2023 season with RPB. We ranked 1st in WT last two seasons.
I don't suport U23 cost anymore (still not worth the cost IMO). What I would advice new ppl to do is (and what I personally do each season now) :
- Recruit 1 scout for each category (Sprinter, Climber, etc.) : I alway take the cheapest one (reputation don't seem to matter so much and as for area I dont know what it does...).
- End of season (after 25th october) go to the team section > free agent. Then I sort rider by average and I assign a scout on every 18-21 riders with average > 70 (rider with great potential evolve fast as well so futur stars are there). I assign scout matching their category and rider specialization.
Spoiler As a side tips : this is also where you can get really good rider cheaper ! the ones that have not signed any contract (after 25th october) and are heager to get one. I personnally always left 1 up to 3 spots open in my squad for it.
- In my game season 2020 Quintana was left without contract, it could practically be reported as a bug though - since he don't get a contract after winning giro in 2019 season. I suppose that budgetwise teams couldn't handle him (he was asking like 175k/mth).
- Next season I monitor the most promissing riders (you can easily find them in the "youth development" section under category 'quick evaluation' instead of 'automatic quick evaluation' ). Usually they improved more than the others (Avg ~ 74).
That way, I usually find 1 up to 3 portential 6+ riders (Without to much effort).
Edited by Adrim on 27-01-2016 14:43
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| koningco |
Posted on 20-03-2016 22:09
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Amateur
Posts: 13
Joined: 03-08-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Do you guys have any idea if there is an increased chance that the rider signs your senior team after he has been in your development team for 1 or 2 seasons?
If not: is there any other advantages which convinced you to start a development team? Maybe faster training than in the senior selection? |
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| Adrim |
Posted on 15-04-2016 12:30
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Junior Rider
Posts: 33
Joined: 26-11-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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koningco wrote:
Do you guys have any idea if there is an increased chance that the rider signs your senior team after he has been in your development team for 1 or 2 seasons?
I don't think it's the case.
If not: is there any other advantages which convinced you to start a development team? Maybe faster training than in the senior selection?
As I said in previous posts IMO none. I would strongly advise against it for low budget team at least. |
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| Gentleman |
Posted on 15-04-2016 18:21
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Free Agent
Posts: 138
Joined: 12-02-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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I`ve tinkered with a U23 team myself, with Team LottoNL-Jumbo. Considering I`m a WT team, I have plenty of cash to spare. I`ve tried to have a team with 5 riders, 10 riders, even tried to have 15 riders, but just like you I tend to get pretty crappy riders. It doesn`t matter if you have more or less riders, a quality rider might pop up in a team of 5 just as likely as in a team of 15 - and even in 5 seasons, I only got 1 good rider and merely 3 reasonable ones which weren`t good enough for my team anyway.
It would`ve be more useful if your scouts could get better info by monitoring them closer than regular monitoring, but ironically your scouts can only do close monitoring if they are not in your U23 team. So technically you`re shooting yourself in the foot by having them in your U23 team, because you`re not able to monitor them better - therefore not getting a better indication for them.
My sponsor actually cares about having Dutch riders, so I decided to limit my U23 squad to merely Dutch riders. I mused that having a national selection would give me better riders since there is more to choose from, rather than picking the best ones from the local cycling club. Unfortunately, that didn`t really matter. Either the guy who picks the riders for my U23 is a worse scout than I am, or this mechanic doesn`t work properly.
Now, I could fill up my roster with 'cannon fodder', but I`m a WT team and that would hurt my chances to stay in the WT if I don`t have good enough support for my leaders.
Well then. Another option is to contact either free riders or riders with an expiring contract and offer them a spot in your U23 team because they`re not good enough for your main team yet. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn`t, but I fail to see any positive aspects to it. They sign for other teams just as likely as they would sign with my for my main team after their contract expires. And I still can`t monitor them better. So I don`t see any use for handpicked riders to sign for my U23 team either.
It would be nice if there was some option to select a manager/scout to select riders for the U23 recruitment, but so far it seems pretty random. The only reason I can imagine a U23 team to be useful is when you`re a team in a country where not many riders are generated, so the probability of the few good ones spawning in your U23 team would be greater. Considering my team is in The Netherlands, there are plenty of riders who spawn there and there are plenty of teams to pick them up. The probability of any decent ones spawning in my U23 are pretty scarce. So after 5 years of tweaking (focus on TT, focus on GT, regional riders, national riders) I have given up on expecting anything and eventually disbanded the team. |
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| Adrim |
Posted on 19-04-2016 10:41
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Junior Rider
Posts: 33
Joined: 26-11-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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Thx Gentleman for your input,
I had more or less the same conclusions as you, but you resumed it perfectly
I'm in my 10th years of career now at the 1st place of WT for the 4th consecutive year and I don t use U23 anymore. |
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