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AI Discussion
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| tsmoha |
Posted on 09-10-2014 21:13
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 11819
Joined: 19-07-2010
PCM$: 300.00
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Kentaurus wrote:
tsmoha wrote:
Kentaurus wrote:
Just to put my two cents in, perhaps we could actually have the Control Team not be passive?
If you set all of the control riders on relay at 45-50 effort (pick a set number and keep it there), this would make breakaways much more challenging as the breakaway group would not be able to gain as big of a gap over the field. If other teams wanted to pick up the pace they still would do so, especially in the last half of the race.
The control team could maintain that tempo the whole race no problem, but would not impact the finish in any way.
Guess this won't work. This won't prevent the peloton from stopping/sitting up, wherever it "decides" to do so. A steady chase by the control team wouldn't catch the break (which shouldn't happen anyway, cause of course breakaways should be able to win a race - even if it's flat classic). The annoying thing is the peloton just stopping (sometimes close before finish or when the gap is close enough to catch the break easily) and that won't be "repaired" by a "half-active-half-passive" human control. Just my guesses though.
Not talking about the other problems of this idea (no offense here) 
Not sure what you mean, but it will stop the Peloton from the stopping/sitting up as they will always stay with that small (and relatively slow) relay. The steady chase at that speed isn't supposed to catch the break but rather keep them from getting the 10+ minutes they tend to be able to get. And will keep the main contenders in better condition as the teams won't completely burn out trying to make the catch (which is why they stop near the finish of a race).
Not too sure about "they will always stay with that relay" I had some test to improve the national championship races for the MG (with extremly small pelotons though) a few months back.. once the AI decides to refuse racing/pacing/attacking (whatever), it's pretty hard to force them to stay with your relay And finally: yeah, this might avoid 10 minutes-gaps, but it won't change anything results-wise, as (for example the latest Berlin ProRace) the AI teams still would f**k up swallowing the escapees.
It's a strange thing, as sometimes it does actually work fine.. in other races the AI simply fails... it's like a hidden "feature" and we are the ones to find out the perfect mix of stage-profiles, peloton size and stat matrix 
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 10-10-2014 07:06
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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Thanks for the thread DD, but as i already acknowledged that older PCM is NOT an option for majority of people who decide which game will be used, it it somewhat useless one. The most recent PCM will be always used and fact that it is bigger and bigger shit AI wise every year, does not change anything on it....every year after release Forum develops an illusion that gameplay is actually better, while in fact it is worse.
We will also hardly wipe the stats to some "starting point", so the stat matrix cannot be redone i think.
Btw. Shouldnt be this thread rather in man-game forum, where also PT managers, that does not look here, can see it?
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 10-10-2014 07:08
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 10-10-2014 09:13
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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But the problem rarely happens in WT classics, it mostly the smaller CT classics. Once you get a decent distance, the problem seems to disappear. I don't think I've seen a breakaway win a WT classic yet. I think the biggest race that saw a breakaway win in EPIC was Brabantse Pijl.
The peloton just stopping to do anything is a different bug, although equally annoying.
As for PCM14, the Tour de France had Cameron Meyer in the top 10 with 78MO 73HI and most importantly 69 REC. That didn't look too good. In the Vuelta mountain stages, there's always the same ~12 best guys attacking, with the other team leaders just sitting in the peloton until the race is over.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Mhaley45 |
Posted on 10-10-2014 12:31
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1036
Joined: 17-06-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Ollfardh is doing a better job of making my earlier point. The PCT and CT teams do not appear to have enough quality in the peloton to effect the chase pace needed to pull back some breakaways.
The shorter the races and the lower the quality of teams in the PCT/CT vs the PT seem to be the trigger for the AI to shut down the chase. This can also be combined with what teams have riders in the break. As a passive system, the AI appears to say you have a man up front so no need for your team to chase. Get 2 or 3 teams (with contenders) not chasing and the quality of the remaining peloton is not enough to pull them back.
I think the AI is doing a decent job of running the races, but we (The ManGame) suffer because we have no in-race input.
Maybe it's time to train a few FIGHTER stats this off season?
=========================================
Team Manager of AMEX - Navigon
Editor of the Cobbler
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 05:33
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| roturn |
Posted on 10-10-2014 12:45
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Team Manager
Posts: 22246
Joined: 24-11-2007
PCM$: 3900.00
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The teams are usually strong enough to pace the breakaway down.
But the AI is first using weaker riders for pace making. So when a stronger breakaway with ~70-75 hill riders is in front and behind riders with 65-70 hill are chasing the breakaway is gaining.
Then when in the peloton the 70-75 riders are used to do the pace, the gap is already too big.
This in especially counts for mid-stage attacks on cobbles and hills.
So a better AI should immediately react and send stronger riders towards the front when strong riders attack instead of waiting for a specific kilometer point.
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 10-10-2014 13:41
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Team Manager
Posts: 33046
Joined: 08-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Might it help if PCT/CT races allowed 8 riders per team, as PT does? More firepower for the peloton then.
From the Giro, it seemed that only a few teams will ever chase, and they will use up all the riders they can to do so if needed - Anton, Popovych and Sella often relaying as a last resort on the flatter days for their sprinters.
Some of it is just game programming. In both PCM12 and PCM13 on the transitional GT stages, the peloton would be led by the race leader's team unti about 35km to go when the sprinters teams would takeover - and by then the breakaway were often out of reach.
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| Ste117 |
Posted on 10-10-2014 17:37
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3684
Joined: 21-02-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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If PCT and CT races go up to 8 riders, won't that put more pressure on the teams to build a big enough squad for the season. I know for me it was a struggle to fill my calendar this season. Although poor planning may come into that on my part. Either way I'm up to the challenge and if it helps with the AI I think it is worth a shot.
MG Team manager Team Ticos Air Costa Rica
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| cio93 |
Posted on 10-10-2014 17:46
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
PCM$: 500.00
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Well it affects 95 race days, which is a bit more than one low-average domestique or 1.5 "free elements". Equivalent to 50k-100k wage if you convert that.
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 10-10-2014 17:49
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Team Manager
Posts: 33046
Joined: 08-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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The Calendar is going to have to be smaller next season anyway, since there simply aren't enough reporters, so that would likely offset any extra challenge drawn from there being an extra rider to each race.
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| DubbelDekker |
Posted on 15-11-2015 14:03
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2633
Joined: 20-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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I'm curious whether someone has tested how PCM 15 handles a passive human player.
Does it still let the breakaway win 50% of the time like PCM 13 and 14 do?
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 15-11-2015 14:06
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Team Manager
Posts: 33046
Joined: 08-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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I believe breakaways are less common in PCM15, from what others have said.
One thing I will definitely be testing, before setting the calendar, is having hill stages as Stage 1, since PCM14 has been awful at that.
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 15-11-2015 14:07
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World Champion
Posts: 10497
Joined: 23-06-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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DubbelDekker wrote:
I'm curious whether someone has tested how PCM 15 handles a passive human player.
Does it still let the breakaway win 50% of the time like PCM 13 and 14 do?
Well, when you don't anything (e.g. don't have a favourite, so you don't work), the break is usually caught. But I guess we can test with a "test" DB for the MG stat matrix |
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| DubbelDekker |
Posted on 15-11-2015 14:09
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2633
Joined: 20-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Ok, that's good news. 
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