What can be said? A few million lives have been lost in the Middle East because of western intervention after WWII. Not to justify terror, but this world be damned if we didn't lose a few thousand..
baseballlover312, 06-03-14 : "Nuke Moscow...Don't worry Russia, we've got plenty of love to go around your cities"
Sarah Palin, 08-03-14 (CPAC, on Russian aggression) : "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a nuke is a good guy with a nuke"
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Alakagom wrote:
Mostly men, almost rarely women..men should be defending their country then.
I bet you'd be the fuck outta there as fast as you can yourself.
Alakagom wrote:
For many actual refugges, there will be ISIS members going with them..so you're telling me its right to risk safety of all Europe as well?
For many actual Europeans and tourists, there will be ISIS members using planes, trains and buses to come to Europe. Nice logic.
Europeans can be ISIS members too btw.
Of course since you can just buy a plane ticket from Syria just like that and fly to Berlin...stupid of me
Of course since those people are stupid enough to take a direct flight from Syria
No matter what country they take a flight from into Europe, extensive checks are done..
Of course you can't stop terrorism if you stop all migrants now, they are not the cause of this, it's obviously that 0.000000000000001% of Muslims ( way before the migrant crisis began ) already in Europe who are radicalized that will continue to plan such attacks, but again as I said in my PS this is about bigger picture, not just this attack.
547984 wrote:
What can be said? A few million lives have been lost in the Middle East because of western intervention after WWII. Not to justify terror, but this world be damned if we didn't lose a few thousand..
As we already discussed in private, this is the sad truth..the way US and UK dealt with Middle East led to these things now..
However also do you believe if West never intervened there would be no ISIS or similar organizations? I think there were always radicalized Muslim groups that take the words of Q'aran in a 'wrong way' and believe in total and utter Jihad. No matter if US did what it did or not that 0.000000001% tiny percenage will always believe in violent Jihad and that will never change. The West is evil to them no matter what US or UK does.
Edited by Alakagom on 14-11-2015 01:23
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547984 wrote:
What can be said? A few million lives have been lost in the Middle East because of western intervention after WWII. Not to justify terror, but this world be damned if we didn't lose a few thousand..
As we already discussed in private, this is the sad truth..the way US and UK dealt with Middle East led to these things now..
However also do you believe if West never intervened there would be no ISIS or similar organizations? I think there were always radicalized Muslim groups that take the words of Q'aran in a 'wrong way' and believe in total and utter Jihad. No matter if US did what it did or not that 0.000000001% tiny percenage will always believe in violent Jihad and that will never change. The West is evil to them no matter what US or UK does.
Yeah but then that is irrelevant. It wouldn't be an organized terror group, just would be some crazy psycho acting on his own accord, similar to school shooters, etc.
An example I always talk about when discussing this with friends is, consider if Russia had military bases stationed in Mexico and Canada. Imagine China controls who is your president and who is not. You're not saying then, there would be a higher chance of people commiting acts of extremism?
So it's not really a religious thing at all. Religion is a cover to fool the masses
baseballlover312, 06-03-14 : "Nuke Moscow...Don't worry Russia, we've got plenty of love to go around your cities"
Sarah Palin, 08-03-14 (CPAC, on Russian aggression) : "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a nuke is a good guy with a nuke"
Big thanks to jdog for making this AMAZING userbar!
I don't fully agree with what Alak said, but he has a point. The migration process will backfire massivelly in Europe, not just economically, but also socially in a couple of time..
What happened yesterday in Paris was a genocide. And to be fair, the only answer to this is to declare war on ISIS. We let them grow, and now we're seeing the consequences. Sadly, this isn't over, and another attack will happen in the future
547984 wrote:
What can be said? A few million lives have been lost in the Middle East because of western intervention after WWII. Not to justify terror, but this world be damned if we didn't lose a few thousand..
World War II?Try World War 1! The West helped inspire a Islamic uprising to help topple the Ottaman empire with the promise of self government once the war was over and then went and carved up the Middle East between the big powers at Versailles. Then the West has continued to instal friendly puppet governments and dictators and still continue to do so (Saudi Arabia anyone?)
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547984 wrote:
What can be said? A few million lives have been lost in the Middle East because of western intervention after WWII. Not to justify terror, but this world be damned if we didn't lose a few thousand..
As we already discussed in private, this is the sad truth..the way US and UK dealt with Middle East led to these things now..
However also do you believe if West never intervened there would be no ISIS or similar organizations? I think there were always radicalized Muslim groups that take the words of Q'aran in a 'wrong way' and believe in total and utter Jihad. No matter if US did what it did or not that 0.000000001% tiny percenage will always believe in violent Jihad and that will never change. The West is evil to them no matter what US or UK does.
Yes there might be radicalized islamic groups but without the constant Western intervention in Middle Eastern affairs then maybe Middle Eastern governments would be strong enough to deal with and prevent it. A religious nut with a gun/bomb will always be a problem because that's just religion isn't it?
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Miguel98 wrote:
I don't fully agree with what Alak said, but he has a point. The migration process will backfire massivelly in Europe, not just economically, but also socially in a couple of time..
What happened yesterday in Paris was a genocide. And to be fair, the only answer to this is to declare war on ISIS. We let them grow, and now we're seeing the consequences. Sadly, this isn't over, and another attack will happen in the future
There is no path to peace. Peace is the path. That was Ghandi.
We are responsible for ISIS, these acts and many more millions of deaths.
We are responsible for poisoning ourselves with chemicals in our food, clothes, pollution through cars, planes, polluting industries.
Responsible for sending nature to oblivion and making the world a huge dollar sign.
The war on terror is a phoney war because you do not deal with the origin of the problem, only the consequence. Much like electric cars are not an answer because they do not address the nature of our problems:
that we've taken things to far.
Only way forward is to take a huge step back. Stop polluting, stop invading, stop fighting.
Stop saying you respect nature and your children while you keep raping this planet whole and support fascist regimes and contribute in our fascist industry.
Don't mean to offend anyone. I'm as much as a fascist as anyone else here, unfortunately. It's the way we were raised and are constantly being programmed to by propaganda, taking on unbelievable proportions.
Migration isn't the problem, and it won't be a problem. The problem is, and will continue to be, the invasion of Iraq. And France tried to warn us, were called 'Old Europe', and now feel the full effects of what is quite honestly something that only they realised the danger of. Ridiculous.
Disclaimer- Most of my posts are me thinking aloud. And most of what I think is rubbish.
Winner of a FIFA Prediction Fair Play Award (a phrase becoming increasingly ironic) "... Because he (me) has a sound tactical mind in general..." jandal7, at 9:30 am GMT on 12th May 2016
weirdskyfan64 wrote:
Migration isn't the problem, and it won't be a problem. The problem is, and will continue to be, the invasion of Iraq. And France tried to warn us, were called 'Old Europe', and now feel the full effects of what is quite honestly something that only they realised the danger of. Ridiculous.
To be honest, it's always the people who are the victim. Never the government. Yet it's always the government who goes to invade, never the people. (well they send the people, but I never heard anyone say: I wish I could invade Iran right now).
France may have seen the dangers in the worst crime against humanity since the atom bombs in Japan (yes, going into Iraq), but they are far from blameless, invading many other countries and spreading their "democracy" in the form of cheap contracts and business plans, settling down factories in every "conquered" land.
The people are always the victim. On both sides.
The extremists always manage to get away from it: both the islamic extremists (nothing islamic about them but let's call them that) and the fascist extremists (our industrialistic owners).
Miguel98 wrote:
I don't fully agree with what Alak said, but he has a point. The migration process will backfire massivelly in Europe, not just economically, but also socially in a couple of time..
What happened yesterday in Paris was a genocide. And to be fair, the only answer to this is to declare war on ISIS. We let them grow, and now we're seeing the consequences. Sadly, this isn't over, and another attack will happen in the future
There is no path to peace. Peace is the path. That was Ghandi.
We are responsible for ISIS, these acts and many more millions of deaths.
We are responsible for poisoning ourselves with chemicals in our food, clothes, pollution through cars, planes, polluting industries.
Responsible for sending nature to oblivion and making the world a huge dollar sign.
The war on terror is a phoney war because you do not deal with the origin of the problem, only the consequence. Much like electric cars are not an answer because they do not address the nature of our problems:
that we've taken things to far.
Only way forward is to take a huge step back. Stop polluting, stop invading, stop fighting.
Stop saying you respect nature and your children while you keep raping this planet whole and support fascist regimes and contribute in our fascist industry.
Don't mean to offend anyone. I'm as much as a fascist as anyone else here, unfortunately. It's the way we were raised and are constantly being programmed to by propaganda, taking on unbelievable proportions.
Peace? What is peace?
Over the past 2000 years there was rarely peace on this planet. Human race is not programmed for peace. Peace is just a concept which in reality is not possible.
Human race is not programmed for war, either.
Sure, territorial fights like you see with the apes, that's what we are programmed to do.
But build bombs and blow each other up, shoot enemies that you don't even know why you're shooting them. Not really our nature.
War is a result of how we decided to build our society.
And even so, the saying still remains: peace is the path. I never said there was a lot of peace over the past 2000 years.
I say going to war to reach peace is ridiculous. Because they've been "trying" to reach peace by destroying the enemy for over 2000 years. Yeah.
Sorry, but I think it is a little sad, turning this in to a general political debate, about refuge and the like. This is a terrible situation just happening yesterday. Time for grief and sympathy.
No simple solutions anyway.
Tamijo wrote:
Sorry, but I think it is a little sad, turning this in to a general political debate, about refuge and the like. This is a terrible situation just happening yesterday. Time for grief and sympathy.
No simple solutions anyway.
Well turning away from the problem never helps.
I do agree it was terrible.
Like it is every day in Baghdad and many other places.
Like it is every day in African cities.
It's always a tragedy.
But I don't see why you can't address the problems/reasons for these attacks, because that is exactly the thing we should be doing. By "we" I don't necessarily mean us at PCM.Daily, rather "we" as the western world.
I can't believe how easy some people find it to blame this all on the refugees. Let's face it, ISIS is filthy rich. They'd have no problem flying in their terrorists in business class, which is probably what they do if the terrorists aren't from the targetted countries. Refugees are people fleeing from ISIS and anyhow, no matter what happens, asylum is a human right and we can't ever justify denying someone that on grounds such as religion.
547984 wrote:
What can be said? A few million lives have been lost in the Middle East because of western intervention after WWII. Not to justify terror, but this world be damned if we didn't lose a few thousand..
World War II?Try World War 1! The West helped inspire a Islamic uprising to help topple the Ottaman empire with the promise of self government once the war was over and then went and carved up the Middle East between the big powers at Versailles. Then the West has continued to instal friendly puppet governments and dictators and still continue to do so (Saudi Arabia anyone?)
Europe and the Middle East have never got along, always hated each other, right the way back to Henry I in the 1100s and the First Crusade, history is there and it doesn't lie.
547984 wrote:
What can be said? A few million lives have been lost in the Middle East because of western intervention after WWII. Not to justify terror, but this world be damned if we didn't lose a few thousand..
World War II?Try World War 1! The West helped inspire a Islamic uprising to help topple the Ottaman empire with the promise of self government once the war was over and then went and carved up the Middle East between the big powers at Versailles. Then the West has continued to instal friendly puppet governments and dictators and still continue to do so (Saudi Arabia anyone?)
Europe and the Middle East have never got along, always hated each other, right the way back to Henry I in the 1100s and the First Crusade, history is there and it doesn't lie.
Yeah but if we look at it like that then Europe has always "hated" Europe, just look at the history of the continent.
What's happening in the Middle East does stem from Versilles when the borders were created by running fingers over maps with no understanding of what they were doing, they created countries as colonial outposts and are reaping the rewards of this ghastly betrayal of people who were allies in World War 1. I'm not condoning these unspeakable acts of terror but can understand what has helped create the culture that's led to them
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Dippofix wrote:
I can't believe how easy some people find it to blame this all on the refugees. Let's face it, ISIS is filthy rich. They'd have no problem flying in their terrorists in business class, which is probably what they do if the terrorists aren't from the targetted countries. Refugees are people fleeing from ISIS and anyhow, no matter what happens, asylum is a human right and we can't ever justify denying someone that on grounds such as religion.
