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The crisis of Italian cycling
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| sutty68 |
Posted on 01-10-2015 23:50
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No crisis, it's just having a quiet spell. |
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| Strydz |
Posted on 02-10-2015 02:41
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udoi wrote:
Results of the last 5 years with few victories Italian
Spoiler 2011
Races (26)
Date Race Class
15.10 Il Lombardia ZAUGG WT
05.10 » 09.10 Tour of Beijing MARTIN WT
11.09 Grand Prix Cycliste de Montréal COSTA WT
09.09 Grand Prix Cycliste de Quebec GILBERT WT
28.08 GP Ouest France - Plouay BOLE WT
20.08 » 11.09 Vuelta a Espana COBO WT
08.08 » 14.08 Eneco Tour BOASSON HAGEN WT
31.07 » 06.08 Tour de Pologne SAGAN WT
30.07 Clasica Ciclista San Sebastian GILBERT WT
02.07 » 24.07 Tour de France EVANS WT
11.06 » 19.06 Tour de Suisse LEIPHEIMER WT
05.06 » 12.06 Critérium du Dauphiné WIGGINS WT
07.05 » 29.05 Giro d´Italia SCARPONI WT
26.04 » 01.05 Tour de Romandie EVANS WT
24.04 Liège-Bastogne-Liège GILBERT WT
20.04 La Flèche Wallonne GILBERT WT
17.04 Amstel Gold Race GILBERT WT
10.04 Paris - Roubaix VANSUMMEREN WT
04.04 » 09.04 Vuelta Ciclista al Pais Vasco KLÖDEN WT
03.04 Ronde van Vlaanderen / Tour des Flandres NUYENS WT
27.03 Gent - Wevelgem BOONEN WT
21.03 » 27.03 Volta Ciclista a Catalunya SCARPONI WT
19.03 Milano-Sanremo GOSS WT
09.03 » 15.03 Tirreno-Adriatico EVANS WT
06.03 » 13.03 Paris - Nice MARTIN WT
18.01 » 23.01 Tour Down Under MEYER WT
2012
Races (28)
Date Race Class
09.10 » 13.10 Tour of Beijing MARTIN WT
29.09 Il Lombardia RODRÍGUEZ WT
09.09 Grand Prix Cycliste de Montréal NORDHAUG WT
07.09 Grand Prix Cycliste de Quebec GERRANS WT
26.08 GP Ouest France - Plouay BOASSON HAGEN WT
19.08 Vattenfall Cyclassics DÉMARE WT
18.08 » 09.09 Vuelta a Espana CONTADOR WT
14.08 Clasica Ciclista San Sebastian SANCHEZ WT
06.08 » 12.08 Eneco Tour BOOM WT
10.07 » 16.07 Tour de Pologne MOSER WT
30.06 » 22.07 Tour de France WIGGINS WT
09.06 » 17.06 Tour de Suisse COSTA WT
03.06 » 10.06 Critérium du Dauphiné WIGGINS WT
05.05 » 27.05 Giro d´Italia HESJEDAL WT
24.04 » 29.04 Tour de Romandie WIGGINS WT
22.04 Liège-Bastogne-Liège IGLINSKIY WT
18.04 La Flèche Wallonne RODRÍGUEZ WT
15.04 Amstel Gold Race GASPAROTTO WT
08.04 Paris - Roubaix BOONEN WT
02.04 » 07.04 Vuelta Ciclista al Pais Vasco SÁNCHEZ WT
01.04 Ronde van Vlaanderen / Tour des Flandres BOONEN WT
25.03 Gent - Wevelgem BOONEN WT
23.03 E3 Prijs Vlaanderen BOONEN WT
19.03 » 25.03 Volta Ciclista a Catalunya ALBASINI WT
17.03 Milano-Sanremo GERRANS WT
07.03 » 13.03 Tirreno-Adriatico NIBALI WT
04.03 » 11.03 Paris - Nice WIGGINS WT
17.01 » 22.01 Santos Tour Down Under GERRANS WT
2013
Races (28)
Date Race Class
11.10 » 15.10 Tour of Beijing INTXAUSTI WT
06.10 Il Lombardia RODRÍGUEZ WT
15.09 Grand Prix Cycliste de Montréal SAGAN WT
13.09 Grand Prix Cycliste de Québec GESINK WT
01.09 GP Ouest France - Plouay POZZATO WT
25.08 Vattenfall Cyclassics DEGENKOLB WT
24.08 » 15.09 Vuelta a España HORNER WT
12.08 » 18.08 Eneco Tour STYBAR WT
27.07 Clasica Ciclista San Sebastian GALLOPIN WT
27.07 » 03.08 Tour de Pologne WEENING WT
29.06 » 21.07 Tour de France FROOME WT
08.06 » 16.06 Tour de Suisse COSTA WT
02.06 » 09.06 Critérium du Dauphiné FROOME WT
04.05 » 26.05 Giro d´Italia NIBALI WT
23.04 » 28.04 Tour de Romandie FROOME WT
21.04 Liège - Bastogne - Liège MARTIN WT
17.04 La Flèche Wallonne MORENO WT
14.04 Amstel Gold Race KREUZIGER WT
07.04 Paris - Roubaix CANCELLARA WT
01.04 » 06.04 Vuelta Ciclista al Pais Vasco QUINTANA WT
31.03 Ronde van Vlaanderen / Tour des Flandres CANCELLARA WT
24.03 Gent - Wevelgem SAGAN WT
22.03 E3 Prijs Vlaanderen - Harelbeke CANCELLARA WT
18.03 » 25.03 Volta Ciclista a Catalunya MARTIN WT
16.03 » 17.03 Milano-Sanremo CIOLEK WT
06.03 » 13.03 Tirreno-Adriatico NIBALI WT
03.03 » 11.03 Paris - Nice PORTE WT
22.01 » 27.01 Santos Tour Down Under SLAGTER WT
2014
Races (28)
Date Race Class
10.10 » 14.10 Tour of Beijing GILBERT 2.UWT
05.10 Il Lombardia MARTIN 1.UWT
14.09 Grand Prix Cycliste de Montréal GERRANS 1.UWT
12.09 Grand Prix Cycliste de Québec GERRANS 1.UWT
31.08 GP Ouest France - Plouay CHAVANEL 1.UWT
24.08 Vattenfall Cyclassics KRISTOFF 1.UWT
23.08 » 14.09 Vuelta a España CONTADOR 2.UWT
11.08 » 17.08 Eneco Tour WELLENS 2.UWT
03.08 » 09.08 Tour de Pologne MAJKA 2.UWT
02.08 Clasica Ciclista San Sebastian VALVERDE 1.UWT
05.07 » 27.07 Tour de France NIBALI 2.UWT
14.06 » 22.06 Tour de Suisse COSTA 2.UWT
08.06 » 15.06 Critérium du Dauphiné TALANSKY 2.UWT
09.05 » 01.06 Giro d'Italia QUINTANA 2.UWT
29.04 » 04.05 Tour de Romandie FROOME 2.UWT
27.04 Liège - Bastogne - Liège GERRANS 1.UWT
23.04 La Flèche Wallonne VALVERDE 1.UWT
20.04 Amstel Gold Race GILBERT 1.UWT
13.04 Paris - Roubaix TERPSTRA 1.UWT
07.04 » 12.04 Vuelta Ciclista al Pais Vasco CONTADOR 2.UWT
06.04 Ronde van Vlaanderen / Tour des Flandres CANCELLARA 1.UWT
30.03 Gent-Wevelgem In Flanders Fields DEGENKOLB 1.UWT
28.03 E3 Harelbeke SAGAN 1.UWT
24.03 » 30.03 Volta Ciclista a Catalunya RODRÍGUEZ 2.UWT
23.03 Milano-Sanremo KRISTOFF 1.UWT
12.03 » 18.03 Tirreno-Adriatico CONTADOR 2.UWT
09.03 » 16.03 Paris - Nice BETANCUR 2.UWT
21.01 » 26.01 Tour Down Under GERRANS 2.UW
2015
Races (27)
Date Race Class
04.10 Il Lombardia Startlist 1.UWT
13.09 Grand Prix Cycliste de Montréal WELLENS 1.UWT
11.09 Grand Prix Cycliste de Québec URAN 1.UWT
30.08 GP Ouest France - Plouay KRISTOFF 1.UWT
23.08 Vattenfall Cyclassics GREIPEL 1.UWT
22.08 » 13.09 Vuelta a Espana ARU 2.UWT
10.08 » 16.08 Eneco Tour WELLENS 2.UWT
02.08 » 08.08 Tour de Pologne IZAGIRRE 2.UWT
01.08 Clasica Ciclista San Sebastian YATES 1.UWT
04.07 » 26.07 Tour de France FROOME 2.UWT
13.06 » 21.06 Tour de Suisse ŠPILAK 2.UWT
07.06 » 14.06 Critérium du Dauphiné FROOME 2.UWT
09.05 » 31.05 Giro d'Italia CONTADOR 2.UWT
28.04 » 03.05 Tour de Romandie ZAKARIN 2.UWT
26.04 Liège - Bastogne - Liège VALVERDE 1.UWT
22.04 La Flèche Wallonne VALVERDE 1.UWT
19.04 Amstel Gold Race KWIATKOWSKI 1.UWT
12.04 Paris - Roubaix DEGENKOLB 1.UWT
06.04 » 11.04 Vuelta Ciclista al Pais Vasco RODRÍGUEZ 2.UWT
05.04 Ronde van Vlaanderen / Tour des Flandres KRISTOFF 1.UWT
29.03 Gent - Wevelgem PAOLINI 1.UWT
27.03 E3 Harelbeke THOMAS 1.UWT
23.03 » 29.03 Volta Ciclista a Catalunya PORTE 2.UWT
22.03 Milano-Sanremo DEGENKOLB 1.UWT
11.03 » 17.03 Tirreno-Adriatico QUINTANA 2.UWT
08.03 » 15.03 Paris - Nice PORTE 2.UWT
20.01 » 25.01 Santos Tour Down Under DENNIS 2.UWT
The wins are not so many and the champions of today are not those of the past, even though many of them there is a suspicion of doping.
Again you if you want to post this then use the full stats from the stage races not just the final GC, when you look at the trend Italian cycling is trending back up in the last 2 seasons which goes to the point that it had a low point but is not in crisis.
Wins in individual stages in WT races.
2011- 15
2012- 13
2013- 11
2014- 21
2015- 20
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 02-10-2015 07:39
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
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PCM$: 300.00
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Strydz wrote:
Spilak23 wrote:
But the Italians had such an immensely big talent pool these last 20 years.
Marco Pantani
Mario Cipollini
Paolo Bettini
Michele Bartoli
Alessandro Petacchi
Davide Rebellin
Gilberto Simoni
Stefano Garzelli
Paolo Savoldelli
Ivan Gotti
Mirko Celestino
Gabriele Colombo
Gianluca Bortolami
All born in like a 5 year stretch. All won either a GT or a monument. Truly incredible. Doubt we will ever see anything like that again from one country in such a short time span so many top riders
Also need remember what the majority of this generation had on there side, Conconi, Casoni, Grazzi, Cecchini and Ferrari
This! And Ians post above yours...enough said.
I have no problem with Spain and Italy lacking results a bit as both are the kingdoms of doping.
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| Choklets |
Posted on 02-10-2015 13:39
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 318
Joined: 18-07-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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There are some other countries also competing for that kingdom.
But I feel like the spaniards still got their results.
So do the italians. The french may whine.
But then again, they always do.
Same goes for ze germans.
Haha.
PS My writting is purely subjective and in no way
empirical proofed nor to be taken dead seriously. |
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| Kirchen_75 |
Posted on 02-10-2015 13:57
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I think italian's are doing fairly well. Aru, Nibali, Malori, Viviani all successful. Then you got Felline, Trentin and Nizzolo getting there. Definitely not a crisis if you ask me.
I don't know what do you expect mate? Italian's can't win all the races on the calendar. |
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| ivaneurope |
Posted on 02-10-2015 14:48
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2933
Joined: 09-05-2011
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I think the cycling needs one relly strong Italian team with the core being Italians. What we have now:
Lampre-Merida hasn't impressed in the last few years in big races. In fact the last aceivement in GT was in 2010 with Pettacchi. From this team the only Italian that is capable for something is Modolo. The rest of the team's success lately is mainly from foreigners - Ruben Plaza, Rui Costa, Kristian Durasek. Even Tusgaby Grmay had more breakaways than most of the team's riders.
Then we must look at the Pro-Continental teams from which only Bardiani is doing something in big races like the Giro. The other teams (Androni, Vini Fantini and Southeast) were just to make up the numbers and were consisted of has-beens like Cunego, Pellizotti etc.
Most of the Italians that win anything in World Tour are riding elsewhere - Aru and Nibali are Astana rides, Viviani is with Sky, Malori and Visconti are in Movistar, Pozzovivo is in AG2R, Trentin is in Ettix aqnd Nizzolo is with Trek. I can't say that the Italian cycling is in crisis, but the lack of competitive Italian team at high level is really hurting. Back in the day there were at least 2 Italian ProTeams, but now we have only one - Lampre-Merida. The last big win for an Italian team was for Lampre with Scarponi in the Giro 2011, but only after Contador was excluded. IMO Liquigas were the far more superior Italian team for the last 10 years (Nibali won his first GT with Liquigas) until Cannodale decided to kill it off. |
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| Strydz |
Posted on 02-10-2015 16:05
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Posts: 5894
Joined: 02-08-2011
PCM$: 1625.00
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Ulissi and Modolo are Italians who have performed for Lampre over the last 2 seasons but Bonifazio going to Trek is a big loss. I think that Lampre having a mix of Italian and Foreign riders is a good thing, cycling sponsorship is drying up so if teams are to survive then they need look farther afield than staying with local riders. The Italian economy isn't exactly a powerhouse which is also going to make company's think twice about investing in cycling with its limited return but in saying that cycling in Italy is alot healthier than other countries
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
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| Strydz |
Posted on 04-10-2015 15:58
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Posts: 5894
Joined: 02-08-2011
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1st and 5th in Lombardy....... Oh the Crisis 
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 04-10-2015 16:00
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
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Haha I had the exact same idea to post here now  |
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| DiCyc |
Posted on 04-10-2015 16:06
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Sprinter
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It is a crisis! It is not a full Italian podium! |
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| udoi |
Posted on 04-10-2015 19:52
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It is since 2008 that Italians had not won a classical monument |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 04-10-2015 19:58
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Well, there was today. So technically Italy is the most recent nation to win a Monument, total disaster for Italian cycling. They win and that's still not good enough.
I guess we have to demand that Italy does more than winning and that they pre-win before the race even begins! Otherwise it's just the end of Italian cycling if they don't pre-win enough races, cause if you're not pre-winning then why are you even a cyclist?
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| udoi |
Posted on 04-10-2015 19:59
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Latest victories in the classic Italian monuments:
2006 - Pozzato - MSR
2007 - Ballan - RVV
1999 - Tafi - Paris-Roubaix
2007 - DiLuca - LBL
2008 - Cunego - Lombardia |
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| udoi |
Posted on 04-10-2015 20:02
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I understood very little of what you've written |
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| udoi |
Posted on 04-10-2015 20:15
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However with the great victory of Nibali in Lombardy we begin to improve |
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| udoi |
Posted on 04-10-2015 20:19
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Now we hope for a team with Italian sponsors, who fights against doping. |
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 04-10-2015 20:21
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udoi wrote:
However with the great victory of Nibali in Lombardy we begin to improve.
Italy has no crysis. Italy has great riders and I think this thread is unnecessary
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| Selwink |
Posted on 04-10-2015 20:22
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udoi wrote:
Now we hope for a team with Italian sponsors, who fights against doping.
''Just like in the old days''
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| udoi |
Posted on 04-10-2015 20:29
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Hopefully not like the old days ... the old days were the days of doping. |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 04-10-2015 20:32
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Paul23 wrote:
udoi wrote:
However with the great victory of Nibali in Lombardy we begin to improve.
Italy has no crysis. Italy has great riders and I think this thread is unnecessary
Well, they only have one team now, 2 if you count Astana I guess, but that team is Lampre which doesnt really fields Italian and is mediocre at best. Once they were far and away the best classics-nation, they are not anything near that anymore despite Nibali obviously winning Il Lombardia. Only Aru and Nibali can be considered world class at this point, they have a lot of decent riders out there (like every big cycling nation, so I wouldnt even consider that an argument), but not really more than that. Again, compare that to some 5-10 years ago when Italy could field GC contenders (at least in Giro) as Simoni, Garzelli, Basso, Cunego, Ricco, Scarponi, Di Luca etc and classics specialists such as Bettini and Rebellin, I guess you can count Di Luca in there as well, along with Pozzato, Ballan and a sprinter like Petacchi.
I dont think its a crisis, but Lampre isnt really an Italian team anymore and they lack elite talent apart from Aru and Nibali. This is a kinda similar situation to Spain, in some aspects its better - some worse, but its quite logical since you have riders from other countries coming into the scene. |
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
