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The most gifted cyclist?
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 29-07-2015 08:41
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
valverde321 wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
Wiggins also. But how much of that transition is due to the presumed unlevelled playing ground in 2012 (and to some extent, I guess also now)? Its all assumptions. But either way, extremely talented, yes. Schleck was just in another league, wouldnt dump him a spot.
True, Schleck and Contador together were in another league. I was more going off results. Conta always seemed to have Schleck in his back pocket, for his only goal of every season after 2009.
And yeah, first to go off the list would be Petacchi.
Mayo is a good suggestion as well.
Why put Petacchi out and getting Cavendish in? Petacchi is twice a sprinting talent, he also does not need to be placed perfectly into last 100ms,like Cavendish, who would do like tenth of his success without perfect teammates. while that list is full of guys who can dominate all by themselves...
Freire is one of them.
No Vino or Ricco please, those are cheaters more then anything else.
Nice list Riijs123, i agree with majority of it.
Regarding Sagan, dont forget that he is a Junior MTB world champion and came 2nd at CX world championships juniors same year. That shows how much of a talent he is, i think he maybe deserves spot nr.1 with the raw talent and power. Imagine him with racing mind of Bettini. 
Just looked at resume of Sagans palmares:25years old
67 wins
54 2nd places
25 3rd places.
Any names I said are just suggestions, not a definite that they should be in the Top 10.
Dont worry about Vino, I dont think he really is good enough to make the list, was just saying him, but I think we just need to forget about doping in a list like this. Practically everyone from the past 15 years is going to have been caught or likely rumoured to have doped.
Also I think this whole thing needs two categories. One for not living up to their potential and one for actual results.
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| Dee-Jay |
Posted on 29-07-2015 08:55
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I think the real legends are the guys who can be marked heavily but still win. Thats why Sagan still needs a Monument win or two. His problem is that hes not as strong as the pure puncheurs or as the pure sprinters or the pure cobble specialists. He often can keep up with them but not beat them.
I'd disagree about Cavendish needing a strong leadout, quite the opposite really. He's been a bit crap this Tour but his WC was won without a leadout and the 2013 Giro red jersey win was amazing - he won so many stages after losing his leadout man (Steegmans i think) early.
Have to agree on Valverde - he's got an unbelievable record. Maybe its the ban which is in a lot of peoples minds. |
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| wouty006 |
Posted on 29-07-2015 09:04
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Kwiatkowski: he can win all the classics in his career (cobbles and hills), he is also very good in timetrial, can also sprint, great descender and can also do well in a breakaway in a mountain stage if he is in top shape.
But for some reason he hasn't really been in topform this year |
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 29-07-2015 09:10
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Schleck way too high.
Exactly, he didn't care much. But, he did care for the Tour de France. That's the only thing that he cared about. Yet, he never wore the yellow jersey in Paris. He only had one goal and he failed to achieve it time and time again.
I agree that he and Contador were at another level compared with other climbers in 2009 - 2011, but he never managed to beat the Spaniard (Contador was going for other races at that time too) which is why I don't understand why you even ranked him higher than Contador.
He was a gifted rider indeed. But the third best in the last 15 years? No way.
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 29-07-2015 09:20
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Can't believe you left out Vandenbroucke, such a talent, if only he could have got his head right.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| jt1109 |
Posted on 29-07-2015 09:33
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Riis123 wrote:
hanspetter61 wrote:
Maybe some off you also use CQ ranking from time to time. For those who dont they have ranking from all races not just world tour. Give a good indiation off the best overall rider.
Valverde stats are amazing
2015 Esp Movistar Team PRT 1 2142 All Points (rank 1)
2014 Esp Movistar Team PRT 1 3152 All Points (rank 1)
2013 Esp Movistar Team PRT 4 2403 All Points ( rank 4)
2012 Esp Movistar Team PRT 4 2013 All Points (rank 4)
2010 Esp Caisse d'Epargne PRT - 0 All Points
2009 Esp Caisse d'Epargne PRT 1 2494 All Points (rank 1)
2008 Esp Caisse d'Epargne PRT 1 2662 All Points (rank 1)
2007 Esp Caisse d'Epargne PRT 3 1897 All Points (rank 3)
2006 Esp Caisse d'Epargne - Illes Balears PRT 2 2469 All Points (rank 2)
2005 Esp Illes Balears - Caisse d'Epargne PRT 14 1100 All Points (rank 14)
2004 Esp Comunidad Valenciana - Kelme TT2 4 1892 All Points (rank 2)
This is 11 years. Thats simply stunning!
https://www.cqrank...?riderid=5
Yup, I have lobbyed for Valverde for a good year now for being the best cyclist of this era. Unfortunately for me, most in here just laugh at me. 
See I laughed when you say Best Cyclist because his Palmeres doesn't stack up to others, but most Gifted I think he is probably the top near the top to be as good as he is at Hills, Mountains he could of probably been a good sprinter too if he would have gone down that road.
To me, Ricardo Ricco and Franck Vandebrouke always were the most gifted cyclists I saw (for obvious reason now) but they both had that stinging attack that leaves you awe-struck only Sagan does that for me now but it's getting more and more rare for him to do it.
Another talent though Cancellara needs to be mentioned the best TT and Cobbler at his peak top mountain Domestique for Schlecks and as he showed in Mendriso he could of been a top 10/15 punchuer as well if he'd have gone down that path. |
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| Shonak |
Posted on 29-07-2015 09:59
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valverde321 wrote:
Armstrong was a great one day racer, he won LBL, a stage at the TDF and the WC at 21.
No he didn't, but he was quite an amazing talent. You have to be if you become youngest World Champion ever.
This thread is kinda difficult because we have to separate the life-long careers from the potential of what could have been, and we have to separate that potential from the many thousand hard training hours and kilometers we have no idea about. Most gifted in the sense of natural abilitiy or biggest potential to dominate the sport.. mhm...
Ulrich was said to have the best body for cycling ever, funnily enough he couldn't control his body at all. Lots of that was also media chatter, however he did win le Tour when he was still in U25 ranking. Same goes for Contador. Is it necessarcy to have a big success early in your career to be branded as a natural gifted for great things? This would leave late-bloomers such as Froome, Purito or Chris Horner out of question by default, although they may have such as likely a great body for cycling.
Cancellara was seen by his coaches in earlier years as an amazing talent. He also did great things at a very young age, so I'd actually see Cancellara as the most gifted cyclist in the current peloton. Followed up by Valverde who has been on top of this sport ever since he rode a bike I reckon.
Personally, I've never seen someone like Cunego before or after that Giro in 2004 who has ridden and won so perfect. Cunego had a great career with many beautiful moments and giant wins (IL Lombardia ffs) but back then in 2004, we were promised so much more..
Also, Pantani easily the craziest climber ever. Double ffs!
Btw For me, it is easier to say who is enormously gifted right now and from whom I expect great things and that is Van der Poel. Guy has the most insanse feeling for the bike ever.  https://cyclocosm....r-than-you
Edited by Shonak on 29-07-2015 10:07
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Ybodonk |
Posted on 29-07-2015 10:14
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Oh Lord have mercy on their souls, Roberto Heras is the purest of pure climbers from the past 25 years. When it comes to talents of modern cycling. Heras climbing was like an Angel with the lightest footsteps. You guys better watch some Vuelta or TDF stages from 99-04. Pantani and Heras is defitenately the best of the best and most gifted climbers of modern day cycling.
The best pure gc talent is by many considered to be Jan Ullrich, the cyclist of tw century they called him. |
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| Shonak |
Posted on 29-07-2015 10:20
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Also very high in the list Of What Could Have Been: Beloki. ;(
Heras was indeed amazing climber but anybody comes short against Pantani when it comes to being the purest mountain goat.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Wilier |
Posted on 29-07-2015 11:20
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I'm gonna drop a unlikely name here, but Gesink was an amazing talent. He was fenomenal in his early twenties before his leg break and personal problems. He was better than Nibali in about everything back then...
Also Roman Kreuziger did amazing stuff in his early twenties, but somehow his development stalled. Edvald Boasson Hagen has followed the same pattern.
Same can be said about Peter Sagan, though it's still a bit early and he's still an amazing rider. His bike handling skills are the best I've ever seen and his descending is probably equal to Savoldelli's (who I rate as the best ever).
Other than that there's the usual suspects like Marco Pantani, Franck Vandenbroucke, Jan Ullrich, Lance Armstrong, Óscar Freire, Tom Boonen, Fabian Cancellara, Mark Cavendish, Riccardo Riccò, Andy Schleck, Alberto Contador, Bradley Wiggins, Alejandro Valverde...too many names to make a simple top ten.
Next big thing to feature on this list should be Tiesj Benoot.
Oh, before I forget. Dmytro Grabovskyy...u23 world champion and 2nd in itt at age 19...didn't have the discipline.
So many names.
Edited by Wilier on 29-07-2015 14:01
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 29-07-2015 11:22
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Shonak wrote:
Also very high in the list Of What Could Have Been: Beloki. ;(
Oh yeah, the only guy that could challenge Armstrong. And I still see him winning that one Tour if he didn't crash. Armstrong was weaker that year. After that, he was never the same.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Ton1Mart1n |
Posted on 29-07-2015 11:24
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Domestique
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wouty006 wrote:
Kwiatkowski: he can win all the classics in his career (cobbles and hills), he is also very good in timetrial, can also sprint, great descender and can also do well in a breakaway in a mountain stage if he is in top shape.
But for some reason he hasn't really been in topform this year
Also Stybar can do this
“When it’s hurting you, that’s when you can make a difference”
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| Dee-Jay |
Posted on 29-07-2015 13:27
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Not really achieved anything big yet, but what do you guys think of Alaphilippe? Lampaert? |
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| Strydz |
Posted on 29-07-2015 13:37
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Spilak23 wrote:
Roberto Heras also fits in the last 10-15 year time frame and I also think of him as a truly gifted climber. Very underrated. One of the 10 best climbers of all time in my book. Shame he never returned to pro cycling after his suspension. He was only 33 when he could've come back.
Was he that gifted? He was just another rider who will never know if he actually had talent due to fact he basically replaced his blood with EPO
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 29-07-2015 13:42
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Strydz wrote:
Was he that gifted? He was just another rider who will never know if he actually had talent due to fact he basically replaced his blood with EPO
You could basically say that about every champion rider in the 90's though. Sad, but not wrong.
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| Strydz |
Posted on 29-07-2015 13:42
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I honestly can't believe some of the suggestions in this thread, are we actually discussing gifted riders or science experiments? If it's the latter then Ricco wins hands down! But that could go for a few suggestions so far
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
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| Strydz |
Posted on 29-07-2015 13:44
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Waghlon wrote:
Strydz wrote:
Was he that gifted? He was just another rider who will never know if he actually had talent due to fact he basically replaced his blood with EPO
You could basically say that about every champion rider in the 90's though. Sad, but not wrong.
That's the problem when discussing naturally gifted riders from the 90's and well into the 2000's. Only rider I can 100% say was gifted in that era is Bassons
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 29-07-2015 13:57
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Strydz wrote:
I honestly can't believe some of the suggestions in this thread, are we actually discussing gifted riders or science experiments? If it's the latter then Ricco wins hands down! But that could go for a few suggestions so far
Ricco actually had the gift of lunacy. Yes, he was (probably literally) drugged to the eyeballs, but he also added a flair and drama to the races.
From a pure entertainment point of view, Ricco was a gift to the sport. Regardless of how gifted he was as a cyclist.
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 29-07-2015 14:00
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Strydz wrote:
That's the problem when discussing naturally gifted riders from the 90's and well into the 2000's. Only rider I can 100% say was gifted in that era is Bassons
True, sadly true.
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| Wilier |
Posted on 29-07-2015 14:06
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I still remember when Yaroslav Popovych was seen as the next big thing and Lance Armstrong's successor, after winning the white jersey in the TdF. Too bad his age decline stat was set at 24 in the real life DB... he only decreased and decreased. |
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