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Le Tour de France 2015/Stage 17:Digne-les-Bains - Pra-Loup
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| Strydz |
Posted on 22-07-2015 16:35
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I don't think Bjarne Riis being back in the sport is a good thing but I do fear that you are correct and he will be back with a new team within the next year or two
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| dark_x2012 |
Posted on 22-07-2015 16:35
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Strydz wrote:
dark_x2012 wrote:
Game over. Froome has won. Quintana dumb second, Valverde unfairly won third. Hope Movistar are happy now with 2-3. The only thing that would now make the Tour good now is all of them crashing or at least abandoning, they would deserve it.
How is Quintana dumb and what is unfair about Valverde being in 3rd?
Quintana must learn a lot about tactics or at least redefine his goal. If he wants to win he can't do it in the final kilometres.
Valverde is stronger than Contador currently, but that doesn't mean the third spot must be earned this way. By attacking while the other crashed. I wouldn't mind if it was all part of a plan to gain time on Froome but it wasn't. It was just exploiting a misfortune. Even Lance and Jan waited for each other in crashes. And they weren't best friends. |
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| Jacdk |
Posted on 22-07-2015 16:37
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I don't think Quintana is dumb, he can't drop Froome yet and I doubt he will this Tour as Froome looks better than 2013 but it doesn't make him a dumb rider. I was responding to the fact you said he should go home as he will never beat Froome, he is obviously trying so I didn't and still don't understand why you wrote that.
If you look at when and how Quintana attacks and how Moviestar is using their team, its pretty clear that they do not have a clue.
Think about the Giro, look at how Astana used their team and how they used the fact that they had 2 top guys, thats what Moviestar and Quintana/Valverde should react.
And thats what i mean by Quintana being dumb, he seem to only focus on the last km and hoping for a bad Froome day. |
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| Jacdk |
Posted on 22-07-2015 16:40
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Strydz wrote:
Jacdk wrote:
Strydz wrote:
Jacdk wrote:
For once i am cheering for Frrome.
Quintana go home you are drunk and are never going to win a Grand Tour when froome is there.
I wonder whats been going on between Valverde/moviestar and Contador, they really do not seem to like each other.
What? So Quintana should try? Also Valverde and Contador have never got along
Not sure what you wanted to say there.... Quintana should of course try but he is still a incredibly dumb rider when it comes to race-strategy.
And ya i know Valverde and Contador never have been friends, but this kind of hatred between them is not something i recall. Driving the stake in when he crashes when he isent really a threat and moviestar using their team to ride him in when he attacked, instead of using it to attack Froome.
I don't think Quintana is dumb, he can't drop Froome yet and I doubt he will this Tour as Froome looks better than 2013 but it doesn't make him a dumb rider. I was responding to the fact you said he should go home as he will never beat Froome, he is obviously trying so I didn't and still don't understand why you wrote that.
What i wrote to Strydz.... but yes Quintana is dumb when it comes to how to run against Froome and Team Sky.
They should look at Astana´s Giro and do the same... and not just go against Contador. |
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| Strydz |
Posted on 22-07-2015 16:40
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dark_x2012 wrote:
Strydz wrote:
dark_x2012 wrote:
Game over. Froome has won. Quintana dumb second, Valverde unfairly won third. Hope Movistar are happy now with 2-3. The only thing that would now make the Tour good now is all of them crashing or at least abandoning, they would deserve it.
How is Quintana dumb and what is unfair about Valverde being in 3rd?
Quintana must learn a lot about tactics or at least redefine his goal. If he wants to win he can't do it in the final kilometres.
Valverde is stronger than Contador currently, but that doesn't mean the third spot must be earned this way. By attacking while the other crashed. I wouldn't mind if it was all part of a plan to gain time on Froome but it wasn't. It was just exploiting a misfortune. Even Lance and Jan waited for each other in crashes. And they weren't best friends.
What rubbish! Quintana would never drop Froome on a climb like Pra Loup so a couple of seconds is the best he could gain which is what he tried, he has a better chance on longer climbs so let's see how he goes in the days to come. Also considering when Contador came off there want much the main GC guys could do, it's not like they attacked him on an uphill section like say ummm Contador did when Schleck had a mechanical. If Contador plays dirty do you really expect others to play nice?
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 22-07-2015 16:42
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dark_x2012 wrote:
Strydz wrote:
dark_x2012 wrote:
Game over. Froome has won. Quintana dumb second, Valverde unfairly won third. Hope Movistar are happy now with 2-3. The only thing that would now make the Tour good now is all of them crashing or at least abandoning, they would deserve it.
How is Quintana dumb and what is unfair about Valverde being in 3rd?
Quintana must learn a lot about tactics or at least redefine his goal. If he wants to win he can't do it in the final kilometres.
Valverde is stronger than Contador currently, but that doesn't mean the third spot must be earned this way. By attacking while the other crashed. I wouldn't mind if it was all part of a plan to gain time on Froome but it wasn't. It was just exploiting a misfortune. Even Lance and Jan waited for each other in crashes. And they weren't best friends.
Bullshit alert. Total utter bullshit. Its clear that you hate Movistar, Quintana and Valverde, but honestly, honestly, what do you want them to do on a stage like this? Quintana tried on Allos, tried again 2 kilometres from the finish on Pra Loup.
Its just dumb statement after dumb statement. Quintana won his Giro on the descent long way out, as was he attacking long way out in 2013. There simply havent been any more possibilities: Tried to follow Froome on stage 10, stage 11 too esay, headwind on stage 12 (where he tried), attacked on Mende and tried again today, but Froome is just too strong, as is his team. I dont get all the fuss about tactics etc: Look, Froome is just better, as is his team. Its so fucking simple. Get over it and get fucking real matey. |
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| Jacdk |
Posted on 22-07-2015 16:42
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Ok, according to Rogers and Contador it was a solo crash and not a crash because of rogers...
Looks like those danish spectators might have been drinking a bit to much. |
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| Strydz |
Posted on 22-07-2015 16:45
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Jacdk wrote:
Ok, according to Rogers and Contador it was a solo crash and not a crash because of rogers...
Looks like those danish spectators might have been drinking a bit to much.
Apparently Sagan gave Contador his bike and then Contador swapped back onto another bike at the start of climb to Pra Loup
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 22-07-2015 16:47
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Jacdk wrote:
Strydz wrote:
Jacdk wrote:
Strydz wrote:
Jacdk wrote:
For once i am cheering for Frrome.
Quintana go home you are drunk and are never going to win a Grand Tour when froome is there.
I wonder whats been going on between Valverde/moviestar and Contador, they really do not seem to like each other.
What? So Quintana should try? Also Valverde and Contador have never got along
Not sure what you wanted to say there.... Quintana should of course try but he is still a incredibly dumb rider when it comes to race-strategy.
And ya i know Valverde and Contador never have been friends, but this kind of hatred between them is not something i recall. Driving the stake in when he crashes when he isent really a threat and moviestar using their team to ride him in when he attacked, instead of using it to attack Froome.
I don't think Quintana is dumb, he can't drop Froome yet and I doubt he will this Tour as Froome looks better than 2013 but it doesn't make him a dumb rider. I was responding to the fact you said he should go home as he will never beat Froome, he is obviously trying so I didn't and still don't understand why you wrote that.
What i wrote to Strydz.... but yes Quintana is dumb when it comes to how to run against Froome and Team Sky.
They should look at Astana´s Giro and do the same... and not just go against Contador.
Are you seriously comparing Saxo + Contador Giro 2015 to Froome + Sky TdF 2015? Dude, its a completely other animal. Contador basically had no team and wasnt super good throughout, opposite Froome who clearly is dominating uphill. If Quintana or Valverde could ride do what Landa did, trust me, they wouldnt hesitate. They wouldnt hesitate a second. But they simply cant, its not a competition on tactics, its a simply competition of who rides their bikes fastest up the mountains when Froome is sourrended by godlike climbers. |
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| dark_x2012 |
Posted on 22-07-2015 16:51
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Riis123 wrote:
Bullshit alert. Total utter bullshit. Its clear that you hate Movistar, Quintana and Valverde, but honestly, honestly, what do you want them to do on a stage like this? Quintana tried on Allos, tried again 2 kilometres from the finish on Pra Loup.
Its just dumb statement after dumb statement. Quintana won his Giro on the descent long way out, as was he attacking long way out in 2013. There simply havent been any more possibilities: Tried to follow Froome on stage 10, stage 11 too esay, headwind on stage 12 (where he tried), attacked on Mende and tried again today, but Froome is just too strong, as is his team. I dont get all the fuss about tactics etc: Look, Froome is just better, as is his team. Its so fucking simple. Get over it and get fucking real matey.
I actually never hated Movistar and I even liked Quintana until the Tour. I previously thought he just needs some experience to race smarter and get bigger results. But he doesn't seem to have the mentality of a champion. HE gives up too easy or is just too afraid of Froome. On the other hand Sky better?!! Sky are a good team but currently the situation looks much like the Giro(Froome alone in the end against Quintana and Valverde). Only difference is Astana seems smarter than Movistar and had the guts to dare to change the situation. The reason I am mad isn't directly at Movistar but more as Ian said two days ago the general lack of respect in the peleton. Movistar is just the current case.
Edited by dark_x2012 on 22-07-2015 16:58
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| dark_x2012 |
Posted on 22-07-2015 16:55
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Riis123 wrote:
Are you seriously comparing Saxo + Contador Giro 2015 to Froome + Sky TdF 2015? Dude, its a completely other animal. Contador basically had no team and wasnt super good throughout, opposite Froome who clearly is dominating uphill. If Quintana or Valverde could ride do what Landa did, trust me, they wouldnt hesitate. They wouldnt hesitate a second. But they simply cant, its not a competition on tactics, its a simply competition of who rides their bikes fastest up the mountains when Froome is sourrended by godlike climbers.
Do you seriously think Landa did anything special. They just exhausted Contador all Giro long. Whereas Movistar are afraid to attack. Valv attacks Froome follows and drags Quintana and an immediate attack by Quintana after Piti is caught and I can assure you Froome is dead for good after a few accelerations or he's simply too doped. |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 22-07-2015 16:55
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When you said that Astana seems smarter than Movistar, you just got me. Astana could have won the Giro, but decided it was better to get Aru a few stagewin and let poor Landa be his lietenant, despite him clearly being the best climber... in the race. Quintana isnt. Its extremely limited what you can do on a 15 km descent and a 6 km MTF tactically; as I have said before, its a matter of who rides their bikes the best, nothing more at than particular point.
Anyways, getting tired of this and looking forward to some 'real' mountain stages the two last days in the Alps. Its where they are supposed to really try stuff. |
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| dark_x2012 |
Posted on 22-07-2015 16:57
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Riis123 wrote:
When you said that Astana seems smarter than Movistar, you just got me. Astana could have won the Giro, but decided it was better to get Aru a few stagewin and let poor Landa be his lietenant, despite him clearly being the best climber... in the race. Quintana isnt. Its extremely limited what you can do on a 15 km descent and a 6 km MTF tactically; as I have said before, its a matter of who rides their bikes the best, nothing more at than particular point.
Anyways, getting tired of this and looking forward to some 'real' mountain stages the two last days in the Alps. Its where they are supposed to really try stuff.
How was that so clear? They decided to stick to a proven stage racer like Aru not a surprise talent who might just as well turned out like Porte. |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 22-07-2015 17:03
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dark_x2012 wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
When you said that Astana seems smarter than Movistar, you just got me. Astana could have won the Giro, but decided it was better to get Aru a few stagewin and let poor Landa be his lietenant, despite him clearly being the best climber... in the race. Quintana isnt. Its extremely limited what you can do on a 15 km descent and a 6 km MTF tactically; as I have said before, its a matter of who rides their bikes the best, nothing more at than particular point.
Anyways, getting tired of this and looking forward to some 'real' mountain stages the two last days in the Alps. Its where they are supposed to really try stuff.
How was that so clear? They decided to stick to a proven stage racer like Aru not a surprise talent who might just as well turned out like Porte.
Because it was clear in the 2nd week, even more in the 3rd that Landa clearly was the stronger of those two. All they should have done was just do let him ride and let Aru do his own thing and he probably would have won. This is just another situation which you simply cant compare due to the significant strength difference between Contador and Froome and Saxo and Sky.
Look, Froome did the Pierre Saint Martin 1 minute faster than Quintana and over 2 minutes to everyone else apart from Gesink. There is a reason for that - he is just the strongest. Dude, its simple. T-Mobile was in the same situation in 2003-2005, they boasted Ullrich, Klöden and Vino, all top-tier riders, but simply did not have any shot at dethroning Armstrong, despite numbers in the mountains. Why? Because, sorry if I repeat myself over and over again, he was the strongest rider. |
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| Jacdk |
Posted on 22-07-2015 17:03
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Riis123 wrote:
Jacdk wrote:
Strydz wrote:
Jacdk wrote:
Strydz wrote:
Jacdk wrote:
For once i am cheering for Frrome.
Quintana go home you are drunk and are never going to win a Grand Tour when froome is there.
I wonder whats been going on between Valverde/moviestar and Contador, they really do not seem to like each other.
What? So Quintana should try? Also Valverde and Contador have never got along
Not sure what you wanted to say there.... Quintana should of course try but he is still a incredibly dumb rider when it comes to race-strategy.
And ya i know Valverde and Contador never have been friends, but this kind of hatred between them is not something i recall. Driving the stake in when he crashes when he isent really a threat and moviestar using their team to ride him in when he attacked, instead of using it to attack Froome.
I don't think Quintana is dumb, he can't drop Froome yet and I doubt he will this Tour as Froome looks better than 2013 but it doesn't make him a dumb rider. I was responding to the fact you said he should go home as he will never beat Froome, he is obviously trying so I didn't and still don't understand why you wrote that.
What i wrote to Strydz.... but yes Quintana is dumb when it comes to how to run against Froome and Team Sky.
They should look at Astana´s Giro and do the same... and not just go against Contador.
Are you seriously comparing Saxo + Contador Giro 2015 to Froome + Sky TdF 2015? Dude, its a completely other animal. Contador basically had no team and wasnt super good throughout, opposite Froome who clearly is dominating uphill. If Quintana or Valverde could ride do what Landa did, trust me, they wouldnt hesitate. They wouldnt hesitate a second. But they simply cant, its not a competition on tactics, its a simply competition of who rides their bikes fastest up the mountains when Froome is sourrended by godlike climbers.
You didn´t read what i wrote.
I am just saying that how Astana used a strong team and 2 top riders to attack a leader, is how moviestar should ride against Team Sky and Froome.
So for example when Contador attacks, Valverde go with him and force Team Sky to use their team to ride them in, not use their own team to ride Contador in.
The way Moviestar rides is like Contador is the leader and not Froome. Its stupid and dumb
But hey Froome will win and Quintana can go together with Valverde to the vuelta if they want a grand tour win this year. |
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| Malkael |
Posted on 22-07-2015 17:04
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The thunderstorms started to hit just after the race had finished, oh weather gods you troll'iest of trolls. 
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| Strydz |
Posted on 22-07-2015 17:06
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dark_x2012 wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
When you said that Astana seems smarter than Movistar, you just got me. Astana could have won the Giro, but decided it was better to get Aru a few stagewin and let poor Landa be his lietenant, despite him clearly being the best climber... in the race. Quintana isnt. Its extremely limited what you can do on a 15 km descent and a 6 km MTF tactically; as I have said before, its a matter of who rides their bikes the best, nothing more at than particular point.
Anyways, getting tired of this and looking forward to some 'real' mountain stages the two last days in the Alps. Its where they are supposed to really try stuff.
How was that so clear? They decided to stick to a proven stage racer like Aru not a surprise talent who might just as well turned out like Porte.
They stuck with Aru because he is Italian and it's the Giro, Landa was stronger at the race, he still wouldn't of finished any higher than second but was stronger than Aru.
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| dark_x2012 |
Posted on 22-07-2015 17:33
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Strydz wrote:
dark_x2012 wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
When you said that Astana seems smarter than Movistar, you just got me. Astana could have won the Giro, but decided it was better to get Aru a few stagewin and let poor Landa be his lietenant, despite him clearly being the best climber... in the race. Quintana isnt. Its extremely limited what you can do on a 15 km descent and a 6 km MTF tactically; as I have said before, its a matter of who rides their bikes the best, nothing more at than particular point.
Anyways, getting tired of this and looking forward to some 'real' mountain stages the two last days in the Alps. Its where they are supposed to really try stuff.
How was that so clear? They decided to stick to a proven stage racer like Aru not a surprise talent who might just as well turned out like Porte.
They stuck with Aru because he is Italian and it's the Giro, Landa was stronger at the race, he still wouldn't of finished any higher than second but was stronger than Aru.
I know that but so did Contador. That's why he stuck to Landa and that's how Aru got his first stage victory. And then the Italian was simply in front of Landa and they went for him. |
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| dark_x2012 |
Posted on 22-07-2015 17:47
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Ok sorry for arguing so much. It's obvious I'm biased for Contador and some of the things I wrote above was because of anger about the situation not because I think they're right. But hey I'm sure everyone had this moment to try and defend his favorite, even though he knows he's wrong  However, I was certain about one thing, well a two actually - no matter what you should go for the win even when the odds are against you. That's why I love Conta after all  I recall the 2012 Vuelta when nobody gave him a chance after seeing how strong Purito was. But he won because half a chance occured and he was there to exploit it. Don't get me wrong I want so much Quintana to win and Froome to loose because he and Sky ruin this wonderful sport. I know it isn't PROBABLE but it is POSSIBLE and it isn't over not until Froome crosses the finish line on Alpe d'Huez. But I still don't support what Valverde did going full gas when Contador fell. I wouldn't support it even if Froome had fallen... On second thought, maybe maybe I would I think this is a sport and there should be some fair-play.
I know Valverde suffered from this a couple of times: Vuelta 2012 when Sky accelerated for instance. But still... |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 22-07-2015 17:54
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Totally fair man and yeah, I know that too well. Respect of owning up to it, it happens to me as well when writing shit about Geraint Thomas and Frooome. |
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