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PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion - PCM15
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| Ton1Mart1n |
Posted on 18-07-2015 07:51
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Domestique
Posts: 400
Joined: 14-06-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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All stats stay the same. Evaluate after the alphes.
Froome 84
Contador 84
Quintana 84
Nibali 83
Pinot 82
Porte 82
Rodriguez 82
Valverde 82
You should Think more about CONDITION
=exicting game were CONDITION Not one, two or three days PERFORMANCE counts.
“When it’s hurting you, that’s when you can make a difference”
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| dark_x2012 |
Posted on 18-07-2015 08:08
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 857
Joined: 13-05-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
Contador is the best GT rider of his generation on a year by year basis, but even greats have bad tours. Not in the Tour de France since 2009. Froome and Sky has been dominant in the last 4 years in the Tour de France, except the last year because crash.
Maybe in the Giro and the Vuelta, where the opponent not has the same class or show up unprepared after an unlucky season. Just as Europe league in football.
Froome = FC Barcelona
Contador = Sevilla FC
Uhm, nope.
2010- wins, but is then disqualified for doping.
2011- Giro in his legs, still dominates an extremely hard Giro and tries hard in the Tour but is too tired.
2012- Doesn't participate, wins Vuelta after so much Fiesta and Siesta that give Purito a great chance, which he misses.
2013- Way too much Fiesta and Siesta during the winter, no training = terrible season.
2014- Best rider in the world, crashes out of the Tour. Better than Froome in every race.
2015- Won Giro, tired at the Tour, still getting better, while the others exhaust themselves. Wait and see  |
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 18-07-2015 08:09
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Ton1Mart1n very good stats
What do you think about Geraint Thomas in mountains?? 79?? 80?? |
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| dark_x2012 |
Posted on 18-07-2015 08:48
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 857
Joined: 13-05-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Ton1Mart1n Maybe Pinot and Purito 1or 2 down. |
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| Ton1Mart1n |
Posted on 18-07-2015 08:50
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Domestique
Posts: 400
Joined: 14-06-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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AiZaK wrote:
Ton1Mart1n very good stats
What do you think about Geraint Thomas in mountains?? 79?? 80??
77 for a start. Need to see how good he is in the alphes. If he stays same condition ill give him 80
“When it’s hurting you, that’s when you can make a difference”
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| servus |
Posted on 18-07-2015 08:52
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Free Agent
Posts: 148
Joined: 19-07-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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no 80 is too high for Thomas but 79 is ok |
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| Ton1Mart1n |
Posted on 18-07-2015 08:52
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Domestique
Posts: 400
Joined: 14-06-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Do not agree. They are both good climbers. Pinot have had a great season he is just unlucky in this Tour
“When it’s hurting you, that’s when you can make a difference”
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 18-07-2015 08:59
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
Contador is the best GT rider of his generation on a year by year basis, but even greats have bad tours. Not in the Tour de France since 2009. Froome and Sky has been dominant in the last 4 years in the Tour de France, except the last year because crash.
Maybe in the Giro and the Vuelta, where the opponent not has the same class or show up unprepared after an unlucky season. Just as Europe league in football.
Froome = FC Barcelona
Contador = Sevilla FC
Well Contador won the Tour in 2010 but had it taken off him and didn't compete in 2012. Sky have dominated only 3 previous tours and not four. Froome may well be the best GT rider in the world over the last few years but if he wins this year it will only be his second GT victory and he's only two years younger than Contador, so not much time to achieve the same amount of success in GT's as Contador. When talking about Contador it's the whole package that's being discussed, as he's the best GT rider of his generation in terms of results.
Also I'll correct you here.
Froome= FC Barcelona
Conatdor= Real Madrid |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 18-07-2015 09:09
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Ton1Mart1n wrote:
All stats stay the same. Evaluate after the alphes.
Froome 84
Contador 84
Quintana 84
Nibali 83
Pinot 82
Porte 82
Rodriguez 82
Valverde 82
You should Think more about CONDITION
=exicting game were CONDITION Not one, two or three days PERFORMANCE counts.
Stats look a bit high in general but I do agree with you about CONDITION as a lot of people disregard this when thinking about stats:
For example when doing one off races which I do a lot this is mostly random and if this year's Tour de France as it's happening now were in the game, the pre-race condition would be like below and this would have a bearing on the race.
Froome 83 (Great pre-race condition= a lot of +3 to +5 daily form)
Quintana 83 (Average pre-race condition= a lot of 0 to +1 daily form)
Contador 83 (Poor pre-race condition= a lot of minus red daily form)
So with this in mind I think it's more of a CONDITION factor than a stat factor. For example if Quintana and Contador were on good form they would be up there with Froome making them worthy of their 83 mtn stat. |
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| Ton1Mart1n |
Posted on 18-07-2015 09:14
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Domestique
Posts: 400
Joined: 14-06-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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+1
But there is no difference if all get 83 or 84 as long as they have the same stats.
Froome is just +5 in this Tour
“When it’s hurting you, that’s when you can make a difference”
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| servus |
Posted on 18-07-2015 09:16
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Free Agent
Posts: 148
Joined: 19-07-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Froome may well be the best GT rider in the world over the last few years but if he wins this year it will only be his second GT victory and he's only two years younger than Contador, so not much time to achieve the same amount of success in GT's as Contador.
I think in these 2 years froome is able to win 4 Grand Tours (tour and volta) |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 26-11-2024 03:14
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 18-07-2015 09:28
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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83: Froome
82: Quintana
81: Contador, Porte, Landa
80: Van Garderen, Aru, Nibali, Valverde
79: Thomas, Kruijswijk, Pinot, Gesink, Hesjedal, Majka, Rolland, Rodriguez |
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| Maddox |
Posted on 18-07-2015 09:35
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 329
Joined: 19-06-2013
PCM$: 400.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
83: Froome
82: Quintana
81: Contador, Porte, Landa
80: Van Garderen, Aru, Nibali, Valverde
79: Thomas, Kruijswijk, Pinot, Gesink, Hesjedal, Majka, Rolland, Rodriguez
I actually tend to agree with you. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 18-07-2015 10:10
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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@ Toni
Well that's exactly what I said as well in my previous post, it's a form problem rather than a stat one.
@ Servus
That's a prospect but these things don't normally happen like so, as there are normally crashes, illness and bad form to take into consideration. The problem is Froome like so many big GT riders over the years concentrates soley on the Tour at the expense of other GT's, so he's not really the type of rider than can win 2 big GT's in a year. |
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| bob7 |
Posted on 18-07-2015 10:19
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Stagiare
Posts: 220
Joined: 27-01-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
Contador is the best GT rider of his generation on a year by year basis, but even greats have bad tours. Not in the Tour de France since 2009. Froome and Sky has been dominant in the last 4 years in the Tour de France, except the last year because crash.
Maybe in the Giro and the Vuelta, where the opponent not has the same class or show up unprepared after an unlucky season. Just as Europe league in football.
Froome = FC Barcelona
Contador = Sevilla FC
Aarberg, please, calm down 
Sevilla is shit comparing to Barcelona. Froome only riding Tour, because Vuelta and Giro are difficult to win and he'll never win in Spain and Giro. That's why I rate Nibali over Froome (despite I hate Nibali). Imo winnig all 3 GT's are more significant than dominating Tour de France. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 18-07-2015 10:30
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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bob7 wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
Contador is the best GT rider of his generation on a year by year basis, but even greats have bad tours. Not in the Tour de France since 2009. Froome and Sky has been dominant in the last 4 years in the Tour de France, except the last year because crash.
Maybe in the Giro and the Vuelta, where the opponent not has the same class or show up unprepared after an unlucky season. Just as Europe league in football.
Froome = FC Barcelona
Contador = Sevilla FC
Aarberg, please, calm down
Sevilla is shit comparing to Barcelona. Froome only riding Tour, because Vuelta and Giro are difficult to win and he'll never win in Spain and Giro. That's why I rate Nibali over Froome (despite I hate Nibali). Imo winnig all 3 GT's are more significant than dominating Tour de France.
Well Nibali is the second most successful GT rider of this generation, so agree with what you've put above.
Over the last few years the Vuelta has probably been the most exciting GT to watch anyway from an objective point of view.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 18-07-2015 13:21
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| servus |
Posted on 18-07-2015 10:58
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Free Agent
Posts: 148
Joined: 19-07-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Froome only riding Tour, because Vuelta and Giro are difficult to win and he'll never win in Spain and Giro
Don't forget he was 2nd twice @ volta |
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| MARSUPILAMI |
Posted on 18-07-2015 11:00
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Team Leader
Posts: 5597
Joined: 10-08-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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Froome, Contador, Quintana 83
Have you forgotten what Contador did last year to win Vuelta? Have you forgotten that he has won 7 GTs, counting only the official ones? Have you forgotten that Contador has ridden Giro this year before TdF while Froome and Nairo are fresh compared to him?
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| sgdanny |
Posted on 18-07-2015 11:10
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3591
Joined: 18-03-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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Contador is a tricky topic, cause either you choose to look at this year results or his former. In 2015 Contador has been riding like a 82 MO rider, which is reflected from getting threatened by a Landa in the Giro and not being able to follow Froome and Quintana.
However looking at former results you should give him 83, so that basically leaves what you Base your results on.
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| Maddox |
Posted on 18-07-2015 11:11
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 329
Joined: 19-06-2013
PCM$: 400.00
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MARSUPILAMI wrote:
Froome, Contador, Quintana 83
Have you forgotten what Contador did last year to win Vuelta? Have you forgotten that he has won 7 GTs, counting only the official ones? Have you forgotten that Contador has ridden Giro this year before TdF while Froome and Nairo are fresh compared to him?
Please don't rate Contador because he won a Tour 8 years ago. Please don't rate Contador because he can't follow Froome in this Tour. |
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