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Le Tour de France 2015 | Stage 10, Tarbes - La Pierre-Saint-Martin
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| CountArach |
Posted on 15-07-2015 00:04
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Here is a great piece from Ross Tucker, one of the best sports scientists on the internet on Froome yesterday. I suggest that everyone read it:
https://sportsscie...-mistrust/
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 15-07-2015 00:05
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CountArach wrote:
This is why we need long TTs. The whole GC is pretty well decided. Quintana will take second and TVG third. Without a TT for guys like Contador to make up time these guys just have to follow their nearest rivals.
Sky ruin another race.
Tempting to just sleep through this now. It is not worth staying up until 2am to watch this chemically induced shit.
If there was long TT Quintana wouldn't be in this tour de france because he would have lost a lot of time and the first week was already that hard for him. |
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Posted on 28-11-2024 20:04
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| sutty68 |
Posted on 15-07-2015 00:08
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Very interesting read from someone who knows what he is talking about. |
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 15-07-2015 00:11
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I remember at last year vuelta froome and contador had less than 2min difference at the end of the race and this year at the tour de france froome already has over 2min 42 over TVG it's huge when considering before the stage there was only 12sec difference. Myself I wouldn't have put froome in a good situation like this and now the tour is very predictable of the top 5 after only 10 stage it's so unbelievable. |
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| sutty68 |
Posted on 15-07-2015 00:14
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To me though Contador looks totally out of sorts, i don't think he is anywhere near his best and is still getting over his exploits in the Giro. |
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 15-07-2015 00:20
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sutty68 wrote:
To me though Contador looks totally out of sorts, i don't think he is anywhere near his best and is still getting over his exploits in the Giro.
Either Froome is just too strong for contador or the giro in his legs did hurt him. The funniest part is that before the start of the season Froome said he wouldn't go to TDF and would go the giro because it suits him better but it looks like he was so wrong because he's decimating the field even Quintana I thought would be the strongest wasn't a match for froome. |
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| ianrussell |
Posted on 15-07-2015 00:37
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Was just about to link it myself. It's well worth a read as are his articles on the TdF from the last few years (all on his site) that give plenty of context. Basically Ross has been cautiously optimistic in recent years that cycling has been moving in the right direction.
That optimism has now evaporated. |
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 15-07-2015 01:11
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CountArach wrote:
This is why we need long TTs. The whole GC is pretty well decided. Quintana will take second and TVG third. Without a TT for guys like Contador to make up time these guys just have to follow their nearest rivals.
Sky ruin another race.
Tempting to just sleep through this now. It is not worth staying up until 2am to watch this chemically induced shit.
How would long TTs help the race? With Martin and Dumoulin gone, Froome and Porte would do a 1-2 there as well. Contador making up time? Depending on the length of the TT he would lose 1 min to 1 min 30 on Froome (let's not even talk about the time Quintana would lose) making the race even more boring. |
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| CountArach |
Posted on 15-07-2015 02:04
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fosforgasXIII wrote:
CountArach wrote:
This is why we need long TTs. The whole GC is pretty well decided. Quintana will take second and TVG third. Without a TT for guys like Contador to make up time these guys just have to follow their nearest rivals.
Sky ruin another race.
Tempting to just sleep through this now. It is not worth staying up until 2am to watch this chemically induced shit.
How would long TTs help the race? With Martin and Dumoulin gone, Froome and Porte would do a 1-2 there as well. Contador making up time? Depending on the length of the TT he would lose 1 min to 1 min 30 on Froome (let's not even talk about the time Quintana would lose) making the race even more boring.
Not on Froome because Froome is out of reach, but rather for 2nd and 3rd. It would be Quintana making up enough time over TVG who can TT better than him. Then there would be the other contenders for third and fourth place.
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 15-07-2015 02:09
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CountArach wrote:
This is why we need long TTs. The whole GC is pretty well decided. Quintana will take second and TVG third. Without a TT for guys like Contador to make up time these guys just have to follow their nearest rivals.
Sky ruin another race.
Tempting to just sleep through this now. It is not worth staying up until 2am to watch this chemically induced shit.
Quoting this for when Gesink will be destroying Van Garderen 
Seriously now, after today, I really doubt Teejay is strong to podium even with Nibali and Contador out of contention.
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 15-07-2015 02:22
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Glad there are more Gesink fanboys this Tour.
*highfives Alex*
Loving the "new" Gesink this Tour. Looks like he finally got rid/got over all of the problems he had(injuries, dad dying, heart problems, health of his kid and all). As a result he is much much much more relaxed. Such a delight to see his interviews nowadays, always joking and smiling.
But beside that, also no longer afraid to ride in the middle of the peloton, and also very alert. Fact that he's into the Top 30 in every stage thus far says enough. What helps is obviously that he basically dodged every crash up to now. Guess Wilco can learn something from him now
But even better: Actually attacking. Was such an awesome thing to see and got me really excited.
I dunno about his GC now. Podium is still out of the question for me. There is hope but it's not something we can expect from him. A Top 5 would already be quite awesome and way better than I(or we all) expected beforehand.
But what I dream most about is actually a mountainous stage win this Tour, if he keeps riding the way he does now then it might not be impossible, especially at the point where Froome got 10 mins of GC lead and the Sky train lets him ride
That said obviously those other Lotto men could also have a shot on this, mainly Kruijs considering Ten Dam will probably have to stick with Gesink in the curreny situation and Wilco, well...
Might not be a realistic dream but one can dream, right?
Alpe d'Huez win <3
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PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 15-07-2015 02:31
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Or maybe he just passed the curse on to Kelderman
Also, I've been a Gesink fan boy before you even joined the forum
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| CountArach |
Posted on 15-07-2015 02:34
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alexkr00 wrote:
CountArach wrote:
This is why we need long TTs. The whole GC is pretty well decided. Quintana will take second and TVG third. Without a TT for guys like Contador to make up time these guys just have to follow their nearest rivals.
Sky ruin another race.
Tempting to just sleep through this now. It is not worth staying up until 2am to watch this chemically induced shit.
Quoting this for when Gesink will be destroying Van Garderen
Seriously now, after today, I really doubt Teejay is strong to podium even with Nibali and Contador out of contention.
Sure no problem. I forgot that Gesink made up a minute on TVG today so you are probably right. I for one hope that Gesink gets on the podium. It would be great for him after all his difficulties.
In fact anyone except Valverde would be okay by me.
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 15-07-2015 02:38
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CountArach wrote:
alexkr00 wrote:
CountArach wrote:
This is why we need long TTs. The whole GC is pretty well decided. Quintana will take second and TVG third. Without a TT for guys like Contador to make up time these guys just have to follow their nearest rivals.
Sky ruin another race.
Tempting to just sleep through this now. It is not worth staying up until 2am to watch this chemically induced shit.
Quoting this for when Gesink will be destroying Van Garderen
Seriously now, after today, I really doubt Teejay is strong to podium even with Nibali and Contador out of contention.
Sure no problem. I forgot that Gesink made up a minute on TVG today so you are probably right. I for one hope that Gesink gets on the podium. It would be great for him after all his difficulties.
In fact anyone except Valverde would be okay by me.
Well, let's hope it will be Gesink then since after a second look at the gc and with today's times, he and Valverde are the only ones with realistic chanches to beat Tejay for the last spot on the podium.
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 15-07-2015 02:40
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@alex
Yeah I realised.
Kinda needed a plug to start my Gesink essay of hope
I think the curse isn't necessarily on a specific rider, but just on the whole Rabo/Blanco/Belkin/Lotto team.
Podium? Meh even though it'd be great I don't want to get my hopes up too much after a single mountain stage. I fell for that before.
Has to be said a TJ podium is still a little bit Dutch considering his Dutch ancestors
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| Smowz |
Posted on 15-07-2015 08:10
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Had day out with son yesterday missing the carnage, my dad told me Froome was three minutes ahead after yesterday's stage I could not quite believe.
Sky/Movistar destroyed everyone. I think from what I have read both teams sensed Conta and Nibali were weak and went all in. Whether or not they went to the blood dopers or not on the rest day both teams were spot on in that analysis.
Both Movistar and Sky have their teams ready - whether that means they have done so by crooked means or not I cannot say. Gaps are large but from I can see from previous consistent with tail wind mountain stages.
I really don't quite see why riders like Porte and Thomas who both have now quite a long list of strong mountain stage race rides are 'not allowed' to ride well. Porte clearly has 3 week stage race issues but has shown over last four years he is a very strong. climber. I also muse if Quintana had ridden away from Froome would we have seen such reaction? What am I saying? Foolish smowz the rule here is simple sky dominate a mountain stage doping hypocrites bang on, on and on.
I do agree it is a shame for GC, we are not going to get the battle royale we were promised. We have different race, I am intrigued to see how stages form now, deifinately more scope for more interesting breakaways.
Very pleased for Gesink to see him have a good day, you always suspected that he had that in him, just hope he can sustain and give one truly great GT performance (bar California)
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| Shonak |
Posted on 15-07-2015 08:33
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Gesink has suffered through so much bad luck in the past years, I'm sure anybody who isn't a fierce dutch-hater, likes seeing him riding like that. Very good stuff. First Kruisjwijk, now him. Looks like the dutch can finally stop betting on the lame duck Mollema and finally see some success by the exciting ones.
Well.. so I watched ITV summary from CT right now. What to say.
Contador is not good. It's evident by now that the Giro took his toll but looking at the climbing back in Italy, I always thought that his real peak was yet to come and I thought he'd time his peak rather smart. Surely he must be tired as hell, racing Giro full-throttle for 3 weeks. But, climbing-wise, he's not been on 2014 level at all though, neither in Giro and certainly not in France; maybe he was too lazy in winter. Maybe age catches up to him, dunno. I think podium is still possible if he recovers well, hope he attacks and I hope he goes down fighting. Give me some great moments and show them nay-sayers. But based on yesterday's ride, hardly anything is possible. Just not good enough this year and quite a disappointment unfortunately. Well, that's life.
Next year, big preparation for his final contract year and one more Tour-Vuelta victory please.  I wonder, how much did Ivan Basso's cancer played a role, it was huge news and Contador and him are great friends and roommates.. seeing as how Contador loves his teammates like Bennati, Hernandez or Tosatto, I imagine it has at least some impact.
I am not even surprised by Geraint Thomas anymore. A guy who's a domestique who climbs like a mountain star and rides classics like a young Cancellara, has won Olympic Gold in Track and crashes so often like hardly any other rider; to me he has become the staircase-joke of modern cycling.
As for Froome, did not expect anything else. He has timed his peak perfect this year. Guy is a beast in these three weeks in July. Especially in this weather. Good job by him.
Hugely disappointed by Nibali, but also I've expected more from Quintana. Maybe the Colombian gets the better of the dawg in coming days though. Other than that, I'm impressed by the letdown of so many major contenders: Purito, Mollema, Uran Uran, the list is endless... that was some real dying of the favouries.
Valverde - like a bawz! Loved the pointless attacks. Great stuff from him. He should have ridden like that last year. Great to see him in such form this year at le Tour. Makes me wonder why he hasn't won Mur though.
Also, oh boy am I glad Porte is the world's greatest choker in Grand Tours and never Top 10'ed a GT besides that one time in a breakaway: Seeing this guy ride with his smile while other riders struggle is just really unappealing and dislikeable. Mind you, I'm solely talking about that smile he puts on. He's a great rider, no one questions that but he is also like the guy who rides past you with a laughter while you yourself are struggling up the climb at some 8-10 kph, close to bonking, and asks if everything is okay.. He can win all he wants in small stage races, just please let him never podium a Grand Tour. I don't want to see that grin drooling off a podium.
Pleased by Gallopin and Rolland as well, good riding by the true french stars. Barguil makes me sad though, he was doing so well so far, damn crashes.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Shonak |
Posted on 15-07-2015 08:42
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“I couldn’t breathe very well, it was hard to breathe,” he admitted at the Tinkoff-Saxo bus after recovering slightly from his huge effort to limit his losses.
“I didn’t feel good, I feel tired. I struggled to breathing and couldn’t spin my legs. I do not know why but when it‘s impossible to breathe, you can’t clear out the lactic acid from your legs. I actually felt better in the saddle, which is the opposite of my best riding style.
“It was a bad day for me. I tried to do it the best I could but I was worried about losing even more time. In cycling you have good days and bad days and hopefully there will be better days. Ill try to carry on day by day and see if I can recover and do something. Now I need to rest up, step back a little, study the situation with a cool head and act based on that.”
https://www.cyclin...tain-stage
Wow, Contador sounds like he has had the worst day imaginable. Sounds like allergies, which obv gets worse the hotter the weather is. Nibali complains apparently similiar stuff. Well, hope he recovers well and can bounce back somewhat, but Giro & age sound like they take their toll.
Edited by Shonak on 15-07-2015 08:59
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| CountArach |
Posted on 15-07-2015 09:26
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Smowz wrote:
I really don't quite see why riders like Porte and Thomas who both have now quite a long list of strong mountain stage race rides are 'not allowed' to ride well. Porte clearly has 3 week stage race issues but has shown over last four years he is a very strong. climber.
Except that for most of his career Porte really hadn't shown that. He had that seventh in the Giro but without the 10+ minute break he would have been well outside the top ten. even then he didn't place inside the top ten on a single road stage. Only inside the top ten in the prologue and the TTT. Then just look at his 2011 results - he did absolutely nothing at all. 80th in the Giro and 70th at the TDF. All he was at that point was a fairly strong TT rider. 2012 at Sky was okay - top ten at Dauphine on a course with 60km of TTing and all his strong results that season were in TTs. 34th at Tour, 68th at Vuelta.
Suddenly in 2013 he can climb with the best. So no, he has not shown over four years that he can climb well. He has shown in the last 2.5 years that he can climb very well despite never having shown that before. Compare the 2012 Paris-Nice Col d'Eze ITT with the 2013 one - the exact same course and climb:
2012 - https://www.procyc...?id=112098 - 28th, 20'56"
2013 - https://www.procyc..._Col_d_Eze - 1st, 19'16"
He cut 1'40" off his time in one year, and had shown nothing else to prove that he there was any reason that this should be the case. For comparison, Peraud rode almost the exact same time in both years, so it can't simply be a conditions issue.
As for this:
I also muse if Quintana had ridden away from Froome would we have seen such reaction? What am I saying? Foolish smowz the rule here is simple sky dominate a mountain stage doping hypocrites bang on, on and on.
Would some people not mention it? Sure. Would anyone with a shred of consistency? Of course. If Quintana had done the ride that Froome had done with the W/kg rate that Froome had, then I for one would be outraged. As it is, Quintana is right at the very limit of human performance. Indeed in 2013 he exceeded them, which was pointed out by some people at the time, but it was lost in the fact that Froome was even stronger.
Oh and who else beat him today? That's right, Richie Porte. Who had also dug really deep earlier in the climb. Humans just can't do that.
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 15-07-2015 10:23
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Arach: Porte began his massive improvement in 2012, not 2013, the order on the climbs being Porte-Rogers-Froome-Wiggo. Very apparant in Dauphine and the mountainstages in TdF, La Plance and the one to La Touissuire. Screw PCS, he was a part of the climbing squad that year along with Rogers, Froome and Wiggo, who all enjoyed massive improvement on the climbs around that period - Froome a little before, but neither Wiggo, Rogers or Porte had been close to climbing so well. Well, maybe Wiggo, but what was astonishing was he seemingly got better on ITT. In 2013, Porte got even better tho and clearly was one of the best climbers in the world from that on, but mind you, it was not nothing -> world beater like Froome. It was somewhat more gradual and out of those 4, now we can also throw Thomas in that mix, Froome is the oddest case. Right after him at second, no denying Thomas.
Btw, I think Quintana rode it at 5,9 w/kg. Thats not right now on limit of human performance or whatever. You have to go 6,2 w/kg on a climb like this. Froome's performance today was the only one you can say that about
Also, I for one can't see your point about the ITT: What would that help now? if you are talking about the podium, its just way to early to conclude everything with so much left. Sure, its always nice with a ITT, but I really cant see the need for it objectively, especially because Quintana as it stands right now is the only, somewhat, threat for Froome. |
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