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News in September
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| issoisso |
Posted on 30-09-2009 20:25
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Tour de France Champion
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kumazan wrote:
issoisso wrote:
According to Neil Robinson of the Lausanne lab, most riders are using Hematide and Sestide, which are both undetectable. They're caught only when they buy on the black market what they believe is Hematide or Sestide, but turns out to be first or second generation EPO.
So they get caught cheating because they're cheated. Poetic justice 
I guess that one of the fooled guys may be Mikel Astarloza.  I just can't imagine how his face was when he discovered that...
That was precisely my first reaction to Robinson's words!
Edited by issoisso on 30-09-2009 20:25
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| issoisso |
Posted on 30-09-2009 20:31
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
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Dekker says the EPO use was a mistake and only took it once.
Here's a hint Thomas: if you say that about an in-season test, some people might be stupid enough to buy it, but in the pre-season, it's a very flimsy lie.
(EPO only helps either:
A. When taken immediately before a specific race
OR
B. Taken for a long period of time during the pre-season when there is no racing so that the effects remain for the entire following season and so that you don't have to take it during the season and thus don't test positive)
What Dekker is in fact saying is that he took it for the hell of it, when he wasn't racing, and didn't gain any performance advantage from it at any race.
Lies don't get more obvious than this
Edited by issoisso on 30-09-2009 20:33
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| kumazan |
Posted on 30-09-2009 20:36
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Kami wrote:
Victor van Schil, one of Eddy Merckx his lieutenants died today, aat the age of 69. He took his own life.
Rest in peace.
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| doddy13 |
Posted on 30-09-2009 20:38
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7891
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kumazan wrote:
Kami wrote:
Victor van Schil, one of Eddy Merckx his lieutenants died today, aat the age of 69. He took his own life.
Rest in peace.
Indeed RIP
There's no point slapping a schleck - Sean Kelly on "Who needs a slap"
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| ruben |
Posted on 30-09-2009 20:46
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7721
Joined: 23-10-2006
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issoisso wrote:
Dekker says the EPO use was a mistake and only took it once.
Here's a hint Thomas: if you say that about an in-season test, some people might be stupid enough to buy it, but in the pre-season, it's a very flimsy lie.
(EPO only helps either:
A. When taken immediately before a specific race
OR
B. Taken for a long period of time during the pre-season when there is no racing so that the effects remain for the entire following season and so that you don't have to take it during the season and thus don't test positive)
What Dekker is in fact saying is that he took it for the hell of it, when he wasn't racing, and didn't gain any performance advantage from it at any race.
Lies don't get more obvious than this
And what you are forgetting is his hip injury which plagued him most of 2007.
He could not train 100% before january because it was still being treated and he still couldn't train without pain.
He might have thought getting into shape for the Ardennes classics would be impossible with 2 months missed of training (november and most of december) and thus taking the only opportunity to get into shape, using epo for once.
I'm not saying it happened this way, I'm just saying it isn't as obvious as you think it is. You are forgetting some crucial things about Dekker in 2007, something logically when you aren't following him at all.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 30-09-2009 20:50
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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ruben wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Dekker says the EPO use was a mistake and only took it once.
Here's a hint Thomas: if you say that about an in-season test, some people might be stupid enough to buy it, but in the pre-season, it's a very flimsy lie.
(EPO only helps either:
A. When taken immediately before a specific race
OR
B. Taken for a long period of time during the pre-season when there is no racing so that the effects remain for the entire following season and so that you don't have to take it during the season and thus don't test positive)
What Dekker is in fact saying is that he took it for the hell of it, when he wasn't racing, and didn't gain any performance advantage from it at any race.
Lies don't get more obvious than this
And what you are forgetting is his hip injury which plagued him most of 2007.
He could not train 100% before january because it was still being treated and he still couldn't train without pain.
He might have thought getting into shape for the Ardennes classics would be impossible with 2 months missed of training (november and most of december) and thus taking the only opportunity to get into shape, using epo for once.
I'm not saying it happened this way, I'm just saying it isn't as obvious as you think it is. You are forgetting some crucial things about Dekker in 2007, something logically when you aren't following him at all.
Let's continue this in one place. here, for instance.
If that were the case, why would he take it once and then stop? That would have no effect. He would be taking it to train harder for a few short days....but with a hip injury, if his hip didn't hold at the training intensity he was doing (if any), it would certainly not hold at higher intensities while on EPO.
Taking EPO once would allow you to train harder for a few short days, which would be pretty pointless, and his condition would make even that impossible
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| ursul |
Posted on 30-09-2009 20:53
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Protected Rider
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all the pro cyclist are doped, but certain more then the other
When Nothing goes rigth, go left...
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| ruben |
Posted on 30-09-2009 20:53
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Grand Tour Champion
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Isso, I mean taking EPO for those starting months just to get into shape, and then stop using after the classics, hence the sudden blood values dip in romandy, and hence the uci noticing that and going after him from that moment on
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| issoisso |
Posted on 30-09-2009 20:55
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
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ruben wrote:
Isso, I mean taking EPO for those starting months just to get into shape, and then stop using after the classics, hence the sudden blood values dip in romandy, and hence the uci noticing that and going after him from that moment on
It was Dynepo. 2nd generation recombynant EPO. The effects last for a week and a half at most. Not from December until after the classics 
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| ruben |
Posted on 30-09-2009 21:00
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7721
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Not when you keep using it until the classics, which was my point. (not a one-off, but a one-period)
Not that I truelly believe that... I think he started begin 2007, I'm just saying his lie could hypothetically be part true.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 30-09-2009 21:02
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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ruben wrote:
Not when you keep using it until the classics, which was my point. (not a one-off, but a one-period)
Ah yes, that could be the case, very much. However he said it was a one-off, which was my point 
ruben wrote:
Not that I truelly believe that... I think he started begin 2007, I'm just saying his lie could hypothetically be part true.
I doubt it. He was at the same level in late 2005 already, so I don't think he started on EPO in 2007.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 18:37
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| Wilier |
Posted on 30-09-2009 21:48
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Posts: 5405
Joined: 28-04-2008
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issoisso wrote:
Wilier wrote:
The Monte Zoncolan will return in next years Giro.
And now the million dollar question: which side will it be climbed from?
The will ascend from the Ovaro side. They're still not sure when. It will probably be at the end of the 2nd week or halfway the 3th week, from what I understand.
This is my source btw, it's in Italian.
https://www.ilgior...-zoncolan/
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| ruben |
Posted on 30-09-2009 21:48
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7721
Joined: 23-10-2006
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If you think of it that way you might as well say he has been doping since he was 16, because he was already nr 1 of the world at junior/espoir level back then.
And I do not believe that. Definately not.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 30-09-2009 21:52
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
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Wilier wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Wilier wrote:
The Monte Zoncolan will return in next years Giro.
And now the million dollar question: which side will it be climbed from?
The will ascend from the Ovaro side. They're still not sure when. It will probably be at the end of the 2nd week or halfway the 3th week, from what I understand.
This is my source btw, it's in Italian.
https://www.ilgiornaledelfriuli.net/20...-zoncolan/
Thanks
ruben wrote:
If you think of it that way you might as well say he has been doping since he was 16, because he was already nr 1 of the world at junior/espoir level back then.
And I do not believe that. Definately not.
Considering how widespread youth categories doping is, It wouldn't shock me in the slightest
Edited by CrueTrue on 01-10-2009 08:01
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| ruben |
Posted on 30-09-2009 22:01
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7721
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But in regards to Dekker, I truelly disbelieve that, as he was living in North-Holland with no way to reach any doping system. Or it would have to be Rabo CT organized. Something even Kohl said was not happening thhere
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| ursul |
Posted on 30-09-2009 22:04
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Protected Rider
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a lot of rider are doped by thereself. When you have talent, somebody see you and try to use you to make money. Generalised doping case like Festina are rare
When Nothing goes rigth, go left...
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| issoisso |
Posted on 30-09-2009 22:42
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
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ruben wrote:
But in regards to Dekker, I truelly disbelieve that, as he was living in North-Holland with no way to reach any doping system. Or it would have to be Rabo CT organized. Something even Kohl said was not happening thhere
A lot of riders have said they can get drugs over the counter almost anywhere or send them in from russia anonymously.
Also, england has proven a very good market for them. And belgian youngsters keep getting caught with all sorts of drugs. Dutch youngsters shouldn't have much problem getting the drugs from any of those locations, should they wish to.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| ruben |
Posted on 30-09-2009 22:52
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Grand Tour Champion
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Joined: 23-10-2006
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Yet I'm 100% sure he didn't use as a junior or espoir. And 95% sure he didn't use anything before 2007.
Yeah yeah, I know your arguments against that, keep them.
Edited by ruben on 30-09-2009 22:52
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 30-09-2009 22:55
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Team Leader
Posts: 6716
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You were also 100% sure he'd never doped in his life, before he got caught.
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk]  [/url] |
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| ursul |
Posted on 30-09-2009 22:55
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ruben wrote:
Yet I'm 100% sure he didn't use as a junior or espoir. And 95% sure he didn't use anything before 2007.
Yeah yeah, I know your arguments against that, keep them.
just after 2007? I don't think so... But it's possible, I can't know, the ony one that know is Dekker himself, and he will certenly not say the true.
When Nothing goes rigth, go left...
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