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Tour de France Discussion
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Posted on 15-05-2021 18:57
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hillis91
cio93 wrote:
Bring it home. It's just Paris, but we don't celebrate until it's done.


Congratz on the win sir Smile
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tastasol
Another entertaining stage and in the end Herklotz showing he's the strongest. Not much happening for us, but hopefully the boys are ready for Paris. Could be a chance for Norman Hansen.
 
ember
Thank you, cunego! Another truly enjoyable report.

Congratulations, cio! I expect an emotional post tomorrow Grin

At least Galta tried again. Must admit I got very, very frustrated when he was at the front, but didn't care for the KoM points... Those 20 points would have given him a top 5 in the classification, but oh well Pfft

All in all, we didn't get what we really wanted and hoped for this Tour. Galta's GC is poor, but at least we got one highlight with his 2nd place on one stage.

I'm nervous for how the standings will look after this Tour. We're likely to drop further, and it looks like we're not able to stop it.
 
valverde321
Well, if I ever get back to PT, Im sending a breakaway team to every single GT. Theres really no point bringing a Top 10 contender with a strong support team behind him, as the leader is too weak to do anything still, and the helpers do absolutely nothing the entire race. Combining all 3 Grand Tours this season, has a team underperformed as badly as my team has ever? I mean Top 10 outsiders and strong support riders in every race, and I'm probably bottom 2 or 3 teams in scoring if we combine totals from all 3 races.

It was a nice try from Quintana today, but about 2 weeks too late to really try getting back into the race.

The reporting throughout the entire race was great, thanks a lot Cunego!
 
alexkr00
Truly awful race for us.
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roturn
First of all, thanks cunego for the great coverage of the Tour de France. It was a great read stage for stage.

Congrats cio for that great performance, as I have seen the individual scoring already, I can already spoiler that Herklotz will likely winn the PT crown. Pfft
Losing out on the points might hurt a bit but still a brilliant race.

Congrats as well to Econik. One lucky GT team this year. Missing the top10 triple but on paper you probably overperformed with mainly Chiarello to come even close to that result. But Van Stayen beating a dominant Herklotz in the points is still good to see doing the Sagan kind of GT.
I like how the points classification change made it a thrilling fight between sprinters and GC riders.

Also congrats to the other big winners, Smith for King Power in the KoM, Madrazo as best of the rest. Could have won it but Herklotz is just a beast. Also congrats to Air France as Sicard was having a big race beating the likes of Spilak, Dombrowski, Morton and co. being on his home podium scoring bit in the relegation fight.

Well, last can be said for Generali, my own team, Volvo as well I guess.

UBS got the maximum from Schelling I guess with 12th and stage win even though it looked thrilling for a moment.

Feel sorry for in especially tsmoha and alexkr as their leaders were the biggest underperformers when they should fight for the GC or podium at least, which is an incredible amount of missed points.

To a lesser extend this also goes for those non breakaway teams with top10 riders, in especially valverde, who got nothing from Quintana, which is probably likely relegation due to it as he should at least have attacked the KoM, similar as he did 2? years ago for Air France when he turned a shit race to a brilliant one on two stages.

Galta a similar case for ember and this will see them in huge relegation danger I guess.

EA Vesuvio last year had great GT luck with mainly Goos. This year wasn`t their year as Schleck was kind of hindering Goos/Godoy to perform well, while the veteran was really no longer strong enough.


For my own team, I basically said all in detail yesterday already.
5th from Olivier is the best ever GT performance by my team and after a triple top10 GC last year, this is my first GT top10 this year after I had Valls/Velits only in the others. The full GT triple was not as good as I had hoped to be honest as my team missed to attack the KoM in any of those while I always had a strong climbing squad in all GTs but nowhere being lucky with mountain breaks.
Therefore I got the double stage win by Van der Poel in the Giro, Toupalik`s first week in the Vuelta and the top5 here alongside a 2nd on a stage. So still can`t complain without a proper top level GC rider.
Something I really should change somehow and was actually close to get one this transfers...in the end plans changed as often but still happy.

Today unfortunately no break by my team but this was luckily a sprinter finish for the points competition even though as said Boom/Dekker attack would have been brilliant to see and for a short moment I thought Dekker would go as he was in the screen of the first 20 riders late in the stage.



btw. Post TdF ranking are on their way. Pfft
 
roturn
alexkr00 wrote:
Truly awful race for us.

So good to see you got something decent from the last stage at least! Probably the best sprinter to win today sharing the luck around a bit.
Congrats!
 
Croatia14
First things first: The coverage of the race was absolutely awesome, stunning, stellar. Every stage was a joy to read. Huge gob cunego!

Then congrats to the winners. Of course first and foremost to cio for a dominant Herklotz race, he was incredibly strong. Then to knockout, who had a massive race with van Stayen and Chiarello performing huge. And also to the many others that took something from this race.

Finally we leave the race happy with Novak in white and the Team Classification. It was amazing to see the awesome shirt with the Triglav shining on the Champs Elysee. Calmejane and Bizkarra did reasonably well in the race, Peters, Rmoan and Russo lacked a little. Roglic did very well until stage 19, which was a little bit of a tactical blunder. He saved his race even with his average performance on Stage 20, missing the expected Top10 but riding an aggressive race which makes up for that.

Also I have to say that this was maybe the best Grand Tour AI we had in years, and a huge improvement in comparison to PCM15 in terms of breakaway realism and GC fight. A little too few breakaway wins than probably irl, but otherwise it made sense. There were a few questionsmarks (Madrazo shutting down an early attack, Godoys questionable race), but almost every rider did what was expected from him. We have a highly realistic final GC.

Thanks to all those who made this race entertaining, reporters, riders and managers in the comment section!
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MacC
I wasn't involved but great reporting!

Good to see a Sprinter win Green
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ember
Thank you again for the reports, cunego!

Fun to see Anderberg aggressive on Champs-Elysees, chapeau!

Herklotz with a perfect Tour, really. Monster race for Puma, not much more to say. Also great scoring for several other teams, also including teams with a decent GC rider similar to Galta stats/expectations wise.

Also congratulations on the stage win, alexkr00! Some kind of consolation, I guess.
 
alexkr00
Thanks, guys.

Indeed some redemption in the final stage, which marks Van Poppel's first win in a Grand Tour. Now I'm really uncertain if I should keep him next year or let him enjoy some racing in the lower divisions.

Congrats, cio and it's also good to see former rider, Van Stayen taking green.

Thanks for the reports!
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redordead
Thanks for all the reports Cunego Smile

We came for xp mostly and that stage win for Saber and we got both Grin Only 6 riders made it all the way to Paris, but all my guys were unmaxed flat riders Pfft

Congrats to Cio and all the other jersey and stage winners Smile



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"I am a cyclist, I may not be the best, but that is what I strive to be. I may never get there, but I will never quit trying." - Tadej Pogačar
 
tastasol
At least a good ending to the Tour for eBuddy. Congrats, Alex.

And huge congratulations to cio on a great Tour de France. Brilliant ride by Herklotz.

Thanks for all the great reports, Cunego Smile
 
knockout
Thanks cunego, absolutely fantastic reports all race long. Think of whichever superlatives you want, you deserve them. Between you, Nemo and Fabianski this season offered us insane GT reporting quality and i cant thank you guys enough for that!

I also absolutely loved the timing of your reports. It's something i would never expect from any reporter but it was just wonderful to come to the site at 9:00 server time and know there is a fresh report on the front page. Sure you are no bot? :P



I'm thrilled that Van Stayen got the second place needed to win green. He may have only got one stage win which is probably ~2 less than i expected prior to but lots of podium places behind and the consistency is what won him the jersey. It was my main goal this race to win green and i'm just super glad that Van 2tayen did so in what might end up his last year riding for Evonik.

Then major kudus to Chiarello. He already had shown major fighting spirit in the Giro and he continued here. I thought he had potential to finish 15th in a good race here but he not only finished on a brilliant 11th place but also added a stage win, a further stage podium and was only beat by the narrowest of margins for the KoM jersey. Fantastic race by him in a fantastic season. (I hope that Dion Smith will buy Alarcon a beer because he might have ended up the decider with that nonstop attacking on stage 19 that "stole" Chiarello the deciding points. Congrats to Bikex for the jersey and in general a great race again!)



Congrats to cio, absolutely incredible performance by Herklotz. He was the outstanding rider here, clearly the best from the beginning to the end. The lack of mountain support probably caused you to lose green but the strong ttt team helped you to claim yellow in the beginning so certainly not a bad choice. The fact that he also nearly defeated the best punchy sprinter in the game for green further shows what a dominant performance he had ;)

Solid race by Madrazo but Herklotz was too strong for him and the mountain breakaways stole a bit of his scoring. But I'm glad he was here because his presence made the race much more exciting than it would have been without him.

Big congrats to Isostar who are certainly one of the big winners here too. Between Novak, Bizkarra and Calmejane the team once again scored impressively in a GT without sending an impressive lineup.

Congrats also to the other big scorers, Sicard and Daan Olivier come to my mind first as riders who did well in the fight behind the big two against many similar skilled opponents.

Meanwhile a couple of teams in the relegation battle scored badly. While i dont rate the setup Rakuten send nearly as much as valverde, the team should have done at least better than it did. Aker one of the losers as well as they werent seen all race long but imo EA was the biggest disappointment. They sent a very interesting lineup with two big sprinters and interesting riders for the uphill stages but they just never brought their horse powers on the grid.



I think it was a superb decision to make the points classification changes. Definitely sth to keep for next season!

Croatia14 wrote:
Also I have to say that this was maybe the best Grand Tour AI we had in years, and a huge improvement in comparison to PCM15 in terms of breakaway realism and GC fight. A little too few breakaway wins than probably irl, but otherwise it made sense. There were a few questionsmarks (Madrazo shutting down an early attack, Godoys questionable race), but almost every rider did what was expected from him. We have a highly realistic final GC.


I agree with this. But the final GC would not have looked as realistic if the final two mountain top finishes would not have been there with Schelling and Chiarello as two big outsiders in the top 6-7 places. I guess we should keep that in mind when designing next years GT routes to make sure that any Maleckis, Tvetcovs and Schellings will be filtered out by a tough S20 mountain top finish instead of picking a couple of semi-mountainous stages to close the race where any outliers/surprise can easier stick to their current GC position as we have had in the final Vuelta week. So for next season i'd rather swap Vuelta S15+16 with S19+20 to have the top climbers more likely come out on top.
A Big Thank You To All MG Reporters!
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Bikex
Dion Smith is a mad man. I'm extremely happy with his results here and with having a rider present on the final podium on Champs-Elysees. After Smith (who is from New Zealand btw Wink ) was already close in the Vuelta it's great he could secure the mountains jersey this time, although it got very close in the end. I would never have thought that he'd be my strongest new signing. The rest of the team did okay, but especially from Gidich I had hoped for at least a little bit more. He seemingly dropped back to have chances to attack but was weak every time he was in a break. Regardless, my strategy of throwing many breakaway capable riders into this race paid off. I had 4 riders very capable of mountain breakaways. Smith got one of the main prizes of this lottery, but I also pulled a lame duck with Azman who was not visible at any point in the race. Jakobsen again, like in the Vuelta, was present in the sprints but given the stronger competition did not score as much. With his best being a 4th place he closely missed a stage podium. All in all he has proven to be a successful loan in. Revard also showed that he is not a pushover and managed to briefly hold the polka jersey in the beginning. That's already more than I expected of him all year. Finally Vanthourenhout was also active in some breaks in flat stages and it was nice seeing him among the first to enter Champs-Elysees in this final stage.

In the end, I scored more points in every GT than last year, even though then I had a top 5 GT rider in Denifl and 83 sprinter Guerao present in GTs. Of course I'm very happy with my results now, but it doesn't really speak for PCM18's AI.

Nice to see Herklotz win. It was an intense battle until the end and he was very lucky to keep his yellow jersey by mere seconds multiple times over Madrazo, Sicard & Schelling. Congrats cio!
It's nice to see that Van Stayen won green in the end. He is the perfect rider for that classification and in the end in my opinion the green jersey shouldn't be for the GC riders.

Finally, thanks to cunego for a great coverage of the three weeks!
 
Bikex
knockout wrote:
(I hope that Dion Smith will buy Alarcon a beer because he might have ended up the decider with that nonstop attacking on stage 19 that "stole" Chiarello the deciding points. Congrats to Bikex for the jersey and in general a great race again!)


Interesting you see it that way, because I felt like Alarcon's attacks were what brought Chiarello back in contention.
But thanks, tonight Smith will buy everyone a beer. Grin
 
DubbelDekker
Again, congrats cio. It was a fun battle. Definitely a special moment to see a rider you trained yourself win the Tour.

And of course the other big star of this Tour: thanks for the super enjoyable reports cunego. It was a fun GT with many close battles in the different classifications going on and you elevated the spectacle even more.

Madrazo did a solid job in my opinion. Didn't have a single off-day, was always attentive, positioned well and even had good speed in sprints. The breakaways did hurt his scoring a bit, but without them he wouldn't have been able to stay so close to Herklotz in GC. Third in both Points and KoM is a nice bonus as well.

Then the support team: Geoghegan Hart did a ton of work for Madrazo and it's very impressive that he still managed 2nd in the YC and 30th in GC. 33 year old Kangert was also very visible and even managed 26th in GC. And let's not forget Karnulin with a cool 31st. Great job overall.
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knockout
Bikex wrote:
knockout wrote:
(I hope that Dion Smith will buy Alarcon a beer because he might have ended up the decider with that nonstop attacking on stage 19 that "stole" Chiarello the deciding points. Congrats to Bikex for the jersey and in general a great race again!)


Interesting you see it that way, because I felt like Alarcon's attacks were what brought Chiarello back in contention.
But thanks, tonight Smith will buy everyone a beer. Grin


Definitely a valid way to look at that stage too and it probably is a bit of both.

Alarcons first attempt definitely caused the first couple of riders incl. Smith to be brought back by Madrazo & mates which helped Chiarello massively. But that second Alarcon attack over the top of that first cat. climb reduced the points Chiarello could get by 4. And i think that attack was very kamikaze since he is no good downhill rider, no good rouleur and didnt have any domestiques ahead so it had no realistic prospect of being succesful.

tl;dr: Without any Alarcon attack Smith wins the KoM. With only one Alarcon attack Chiarello wins it Pfft
A Big Thank You To All MG Reporters!
And To All Who Organize Something On Daily As Well!


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cio93
Today has to be the greatest day in the history of Team Puma - SAP.

We have had a Vuelta victory before, and the PT title that season has to remain the best team effort we've ever pulled off, but this is special. This is more.



First and foremost, I need to thank cunego for a brilliant reporting performance that did this race more than justice.
I was excited about your return, and you didn't disappoint. Thank you for providing the framework to enjoy these three weeks even more.


Right after that, congratulations to everyone that walks away from this TdF as a happy manager.
Be it knockout who deserved to take green home today, as much as it pains me to see MVS draw level with Demare again.
Or Bikex, who must've loved Dion Smith's adventures in the mountains to top off a great season.
CrueTrue, a man who despite all of his experience in this game probably wouldn't have guessed Sicard could stand on the podium here.
And all the others who enjoyed comparably minor successes here, like roturn and ryant with their riders high up in the GC, or SotD who must enjoy seeing Aidan starting to build a legacy already.


Heartfelt commiserations go out to DubbelDekker, who can still be proud of Madrazo surely trying his best in his last big shot. He's done very well in the hilly stages and really put a lot of pressure onto us by the halfway point of the race.
I think if Madrazo had managed to slip into yellow at any point in the race, we might look at a different winner just based on that psychological shift.
It wasn't quite meant to be.

I hope you're still happy with second place and the points haul, and I can't wait to see who you decide to bring up the ranks next to challenge for GTs again in the future. You've got two great young guns at your service already.


As I said, CT probably doesn't need my sympathy considering the way Sicard raced here, but alex and tsmoha definitely do.
I'm sorry that neither Dombrowski nor Morton were able to have anywhere close to the impact they should've had on this race.
Both are not perfect stage racers, but certainly good enough on paper and in past GTs to expect more from them.
I'm glad neither of you will drop into relegation danger because of this, so I expect closer fights with those two again in the future!




Before I get to the main point, I need to congratulate our entire lineup in this TdF.
To the seven riders that can't be on the top step of the podium today, rest assured that you're just as appreciated and have secured a spot in the Puma hall of fame for eternity!

Every single domestique did their job brilliantly and the team performance as a whole was nearly impeccable, considering their abilities.


Starting with Jasha Sütterlin and Nils Politt, who were here for the TTT first and foremost, and delivered by pushing the team to a great second place on that day.
While the gaps behind weren't as big as predicted, I cannot fault a lineup that beats all but one PT team.

Filippo Ganna, in his first major outing, played an equally important part in getting Silvio ahead early in the race, and while he missed out on white in the prologue, he didn't leave anything else to be desired.
He won't have to play domestique much longer.

Rémi Cavagna, on the other hand, had the race of his life so far, proudly and deservedly wearing white for an entire week in his home GT, virtue of an incredible effort on stage 3 to set up our first stage win and remaining up there in the finale himself.
Seven days in white, and plenty of invaluable protection work throughout the race, what more can you ask for from a minimum wage monster?

Our vital link between the TTT and the mountain support aspects of the team, Patrick Bevin, had an unspectular but important role in the lineup and performed to expectation. After repeatedly being transfer listed in the past, I'm very impressed he's still as loyal and reliable as ever.

And finally, our two main domestiques did all I've asked of them and even more.
Colin Stüssi and Yuriy Vasyliv had the toughest task imaginable, supporting the race favorite and yellow jersey while knowing fully well that it will push their skills to the absolute limit.
And they did just that, being around Herklotz whenever necessary and posssible, always giving him the extra comfort of having someone around to protect, chase, and bring bottles.

Stüssi in particular, as our little favorite pet project ever since surprisingly getting him uncontested from Free Agency, had such a good race that he even broke into the Top 20 overall, finishing highest of any of the top team domestiques!
And Vasyliv in 27th also performed to expectations and adds extra points himself, proving that trading him in for Bongiorno didn't hurt the team too much.

Rightfully, as a result of that great allround work, we were able to top this race off finishing second in the teams classification, only bested by Isostar!

To all 7 of you, thank you!
Your contribution went way beyond the points you scored, and your efforts will be remembered forever.






Silvio. The man. The project. The success.

I wasn't going to let anyone else get you back in 2014, famously reserving an entire million of cap space just in case someone else was ready to go crazy for you as well.
It was an active decision against trying to re-promote to PT that season, knowing how valuable you could become one day.


Six seasons and plenty of millions spent later, you've done it, on the biggest stage, as the pre-race favorite, and convincingly at that.


I was always expecting a lot, I was hoping for even more, but this already exceeds all hopes and expectations, with plenty of history left to write together in the future.



The pressure was immense, coming from a performance at the Tour de Suisse that propelled you into the top favorite position.
At times, the pressure was even too high for me, and I want to apologize again for letting it get to me and spoiling the fun for others when things were on the edge, and any day could've been the last in yellow.

But you never wavered again after that one time loss. You've missed out on some extra opportunities, but you capitalized on the ones that mattered in the end, and you brought it home raising your arms on the most mythical of mountains.



To even get into that position in the first place was a masterpiece.
Your first week has to go down in history as a textbook example of how to get an early headstart on the opposition.

The TT was a good start, especially with Madrazo struggling.
We had focused on the TTT later on as the big move to separate from the rest, but you (rightfully) didn't want to wait for that and made sure I can never regret the 2.8 million spent on your puncheur training.
Those stage wins were a joy to watch.

The sprint splits that lost you the jersey for a day, annoying but inconsequential.
Only gaining a handful of seconds on Madrazo in the TTT, potentially fatal but you already had a buffer by then.


Then, the mountains.
A shaky start to the real race, no doubt, with a scary time loss to Madrazo and Sicard that nearly lost us the psychological advantage of being in the maillot jaune right away.

Breaks killing our chances to gain time back with your punch, that was to be expected.
But also, some semi-difficult stages that saw breaks getting reeled in, and yet you didn't try to attack and capitalize.
A lot of energy saved, but that could've been too close for comfort with the tiny gaps to the two guys behind.

And finally, the two decisive stages at the end, where you again shone and removed all doubt as to who's the deserved winner of this Tour de France.
Calculated, measured, attentive, overall just that extra bit of smartness that allowed you to ride away from the (formerly) best climbers in the world.


Seventeen days in yellow. Three stage wins. Four more podiums. Your second GT victory.



Silvio, this is the pinnacle of cycling. The Arc de Triomphe in the background, and you in yellow in front of it.

But this is just the beginning.
You were young and the big surprise when you won the Vuelta.
You're more mature now, and the winner of the biggest race in the world as the consensus favorite.

I promise we'll continue to put all of our efforts into you, so let's get to work and chase this again next year!



I'll do an extra post to thank everyone congratulating later

 
Bikex
knockout wrote:
Bikex wrote:
knockout wrote:
(I hope that Dion Smith will buy Alarcon a beer because he might have ended up the decider with that nonstop attacking on stage 19 that "stole" Chiarello the deciding points. Congrats to Bikex for the jersey and in general a great race again!)


Interesting you see it that way, because I felt like Alarcon's attacks were what brought Chiarello back in contention.
But thanks, tonight Smith will buy everyone a beer. Grin


Definitely a valid way to look at that stage too and it probably is a bit of both.

Alarcons first attempt definitely caused the first couple of riders incl. Smith to be brought back by Madrazo & mates which helped Chiarello massively. But that second Alarcon attack over the top of that first cat. climb reduced the points Chiarello could get by 4. And i think that attack was very kamikaze since he is no good downhill rider, no good rouleur and didnt have any domestiques ahead so it had no realistic prospect of being succesful.

tl;dr: Without any Alarcon attack Smith wins the KoM. With only one Alarcon attack Chiarello wins it Pfft


The Alarcon giveth and the Alarcon taketh away Grin
 
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