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14-04-2021 18:20
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Giro d'Italia - Discussion
beagle
Not many managers like the way how the race goes so far, I guess. I enjoy it a lot!

Fabianski, your reports are just awesome, thank you and hat off!
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Croatia14
Guess taking pink wasn't the smartest of moves, with all our riders dropping back with Bizkarra. Hopefully we can bounce back with some attacks on the next stages, and Bizkarra could fight back for the KOM Smile
 
DubbelDekker
Hahaha such a crazy turn of events Grin I fully expected this mountain stage to be the end of Malecki's awesome GC run but the madman turns it around and wins the jersey back in style. I'm sure Kruijswijk is proud of his young padawan. A stage win and leading all classifications is a very welcome haul of points.

Now we must defend the jersey(s). On paper it looks very possible to do so for a proper amount of stages. But in this Giro I actually wouldn't be surprised if Barthe joins the break tomorrow and finishes five minutes ahead of the peloton. We do have a pretty strong team here, so let's hope we actually put in the effort to defend.

The experience of reading a report is always intensified if it's one of your riders in the middle of the action. And I can wholeheartedly say that reading this one was a blast. Top notch quality, Fabianski
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tastasol
Malecki showing why he was so highly sought during transfers. Congrats DD!

Enjoyed yesterdays stage with three guys in the break, even though we didn't get much left for it. Very happy with Nesset so far, hope he can keep that up!
 
valverde321
Another great report. Its too bad the breakaway was allowed so much time again, but atleast Shikai seems to be in the Top 10 for GC riders, which is what I had hoped.
 
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SotD
Bongiorno seems strong but is wasting not only his own energy but also every single team member. It’s just a hopeless approach really with 5 other riders perfectly suited for the break...
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Bikex
That's just terrible AI. I don't think I remember that any GT has played out similarly to this before. I don't really suffer from it, but for some teams this clearly also has some big ranking implications.
Regarding my team I hope Reis' performance today was just a one off on a bad day and not a sign of what's to come in the remaining stages.
Thanks for another great report Fabianski!
 
Fabianski
Personally, I didn't find it that horrible. OK, I've never seen that in PCM, but I remember real-life GTs (although not recent ones) where some guy got a great advantage from an early breakaway - I liked that situation for the continuation of the course. So I found it pretty interesting to see that happen in this Giro - although I can of course see that this isn't great for the GC favorites who had hoped to take pink today already... And given that there aren't too many top-tier climbers (hence chasing teams) here, it wasn't that surprising to see a breakaway taking this stage - although the gap was definitely much bigger than expected.

Anyway, we all know the AI IS dumb in some situations, but we have to somehow cope with... Or should we cancel the Giro and start over? There will always be unhappy managers, that's for sure. And yes, I did have those "wtf" moments while playing the stages, of course, but in general, it was still fun. I hope at least for some of you the race will be fun to follow, too.

By the way, thanks for the nice words concerning the reports. It was a great experience doing a GT (and yeah, I did it extensively, because it's a GT ^^), so it's nice to see the work being appreciated (not the AI, which I can understand) Smile
 
cio93
Fabianski wrote:
Personally, I didn't find it that horrible. OK, I've never seen that in PCM, but I remember real-life GTs (although not recent ones) where some guy got a great advantage from an early breakaway - I liked that situation for the continuation of the course. So I found it pretty interesting to see that happen in this Giro - although I can of course see that this isn't great for the GC favorites who had hoped to take pink today already... And given that there aren't too many top-tier climbers (hence chasing teams) here, it wasn't that surprising to see a breakaway taking this stage - although the gap was definitely much bigger than expected.

The issue is that we promote and relegate based on a points system that heavily relies on the best riders taking the most points over the course of a season, while real life teams play an entirely different long-term game throughout a GT since points don't matter IRL anymore. (unless you're a PCT team trying to get a wildcard)

So yes, these stages had realistic racing. Sadly, more realistic racing can make for more random rankings, which obviously annoys managers.
For a similar reason, we voted to remove crashes and injuries.

But again, you're doing an impeccable job and none of our complaints should target you in any way.
 
ember
These reports are sensational! Thank you again, Fabianski Smile

Obviously not what we hoped going into this stage. Never dreamt of Taaramäe sitting 12 minutes behind the GC lead after it Pfft It sets the tone for a low scoring GT from him, as I suspect the breakaway fun will continue, and thus he'll miss out on stage points, GC points, and also potentially final GC points. We can only work from here, though, and hopefully he now uses every opportunity to take back time on Malecki. 12 minutes is a crazy gap, and I'll definitely not take it for sure that Taaramäe and the other big GC favourites are able to pass him in the final GC.

And wow, congratulations on such a win, DD! That's a season changer for sure. Guess this will make it easy to forget the early races too Grin
 
Croatia14
Bikex wrote:
That's just terrible AI. I don't think I remember that any GT has played out similarly to this before. I don't really suffer from it, but for some teams this clearly also has some big ranking implications.


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Fabianski
cio93 wrote:
The issue is that we promote and relegate based on a points system that heavily relies on the best riders taking the most points over the course of a season...

So yes, these stages had realistic racing. Sadly, more realistic racing can make for more random rankings, which obviously annoys managers.
For a similar reason, we voted to remove crashes and injuries.

I definitely get your point. I'm annoyed as well by a certain Katrasnik guy who destroys some CT, but well, I guess it's part of the game.
I was told there once was a PCM version where you could basically predict the Top 5 or so based on stats - which of course makes the whole thing much more previsible. I guess for those who are used to this, changing to PCM 18 was tough. I never knew anything else in MG. I agree it's pretty much a different game when you have to rely on breakaway luck. But last season, those who were on top at the end of a GT deserved to be there imho - let's see how things turn out in this Giro...
Afaik, we have removed all randomness that was possible to remove from PCM 18 - switching to a version with better / more consistent AI behaviour might be the only way to really improve things...
 
baseballlover312
I agree with cio about how our game works and how the randomness is an issue. It's not only in the rankings, but trickling down to OVL, wages, etc. We saw how it destroyed the sprinter market even worse than inflation alone last year.

But the fact of the matter is we are on PCM 18. A majority of managers voted for the switch, and we are stuck with it. It's very difficult to just accept that when you built your team a certain way and the game is fighting you. I know I've ranted about AKA way too much already this season, and I was really outspoken last season about my disapproval of the Ai and game.

But at this point, we're playing the season on PCM 18, and these things will continue, so we should get used to it and just try to appreciate what good there is. I'm trying to read through every race I'm not in so I can appreciate the amazing reports without that tension of needing results. I think that's helped me cope with it a lot.

I'm all for reigniting the discussion about future plans and strategies to fix this AI in an appropriate thread, but I think we should try to direct overall AI frustrations (stage specific ones are obviously fine) to those kinds of threads out of respect to the tremendous work reporters have put into these races.
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ryant
Well its nice to see we are active here in our first proper GT! Was really rooting for Munich to grab the stage win but it really didn't work out in the end, which was doubly disappointing considering we put 3 riders in the break the day before and got nothing from the stage somehow :/

Obviously our aim is to grab a stage and there should be plenty of opportunities for us to do so and Kennaugh will have an outside shot of a top 15 GC as well so we'll see what happens...

Fantastic in depth reporting as well Fabianski, really fun to read even if we don't win.
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tsmoha
Weird race.. If this 'tactics' will backfire and cost us GC spots, it will surely hurt our chances to climb back into the Top 10 of the PT.. At least Harper is doing fine so far.
 
alexkr00
Croatia14 wrote:
Bikex wrote:
That's just terrible AI. I don't think I remember that any GT has played out similarly to this before. I don't really suffer from it, but for some teams this clearly also has some big ranking implications.


Vuelta last year...


Which I think is due to the way MG teams are built, which is quite one-dimensional most of the time. Truth is most teams don't have the strength to go chase breakaways day after day for their leaders.

Just like last year when my weak Vuelta team for Grosu was in part responsible for the fiasco in the sprint stages.
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DubbelDekker
ember wrote:
These reports are sensational! Thank you again, Fabianski Smile

Obviously not what we hoped going into this stage. Never dreamt of Taaramäe sitting 12 minutes behind the GC lead after it Pfft It sets the tone for a low scoring GT from him, as I suspect the breakaway fun will continue, and thus he'll miss out on stage points, GC points, and also potentially final GC points. We can only work from here, though, and hopefully he now uses every opportunity to take back time on Malecki. 12 minutes is a crazy gap, and I'll definitely not take it for sure that Taaramäe and the other big GC favourites are able to pass him in the final GC.

And wow, congratulations on such a win, DD! That's a season changer for sure. Guess this will make it easy to forget the early races too Grin


Thanks! But I don't think the big favourites will have trouble reeling in Malecki. Let's not forget we're talking about a rider with 71 MO who has expended a lot of energy already. And while he's in pink he'll also get no more free minutes from breakaways. I totally expect his GC to collapse before or at least during the final week. And that's fine; I'm just looking forward to the challenge of trying to hang on to it for as long as possible.
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knockout
Promising first half of the stage. It looks like we finally could get a mass sprint unless we will get some echelons. I fancy the chances the podium chances for Eislers as the current fast pace / tough wind conditions could benefit him and the bit of climbing that is already behind the peleton should also hurt others more.


If there was a day to not join the break, it was this one so I'm glad that Budenieks took a bit of a rest day. Tomorrow looks already more likely to end in another break win while the two days after are heavy. Ideally both Budenieks and Vosekalns join the break on those.
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cio93
I'm not confident the crosswinds will allow us to set up and execute a successful sprint train, with more chaos usually leading to less energy left to orchestrate a leadout.

Alternatively, we might get lucky and the fight for Demare's wheel will sap even more energy from the slipstreamers.
 
cio93
I'm done. I'm fucking done.


This will be my last comment of this race except for stage wins.
Congrats to all future stage winners and whoever gets the GC, and thanks Fabianski for setting a new standard of reporting.
 
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