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Giro d'Italia - Discussion
knockout
alexkr00 wrote:
cio93 wrote:
If we still had unlimited training, I would sell every single rider but Herklotz.


I'm sure everyone would agree to make an exception for this, but you'd have to sell every single one of them Pfft

Sorry, I know you are upset. I don't understand what's happening with Demare either.


Please dont speak for everyone else. Herklotz with 85MO, 83HI is not sth i would want to see... Pfft


I must say that Demares performance really worries me for the remaining season of Van Stayen.
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Fabianski
Given how strong Arndt has been on stages 8 and 9, I really thought Demare was working for him (given that both were on the favorites list, I guess the game chose the leader quite randomly), but when Arndt was dropped it really didn't make any sense at all to continue the chase...
VdP winning this one definitely came unexpected for me as well - all in all, another weird stage. Sorry, guys - I hope you won't shoot the messenger...
 
roturn
Was expecting a break it finally Demare here.

Seeing I had no rider in the break I was thinking, boring stage for my team. Well I was pretty wrong.

Demare working massively led to quite some gaps but also him exhausted. Had thought Valls should still be there and suddenly seeing three of mine in there. Finally Carboni but more important VdP and after yesterday he now showed all his potential in a much bigger peloton. Really stunning performance by him here and now my planning really works out.

As he got the "sprint leadership" with Vesely sold in those GTs. Had not expected much tbh but already 1-1-3 for him here and same role in La Vuelta.
 
valverde321
Im just happy Shikai managed to stay in contact there. Kuboki nearly stole a nice win there on a stage that suits him but cool to see MvDP doing so well in the MG now too.
 
DubbelDekker
Ok that Demare chase was completely bonkers. This was a perfect stage for him to win the sprint.

Malecki listened to our comments and did a true Voeckler yoyo today. But being the champ he is, he was suddenly back at the front when it mattered and the peloton got reduced to a relatively small number. Of course he had to let go right before the end of the stage, like always. But again the loss of time was very small.
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ember
In general, this has been a very different GC race so far among the favourites, with no MTF/hilly stage giving some kind of time gaps. Taking that into consideration, I'm confident going into the final week and having seen what Taaramäe has done so far, always being up there and doing well placing wise, at least among the GC riders.

But then there's Malecki, who is really, really putting up a show and a proper fight here. Seeing how the first two weeks have been raced, you can't say it's unthinkable that two, or maybe even three, of the mountain stages left are also ridden at a slow pace, giving Malecki the chance to win the whole thing, if he continues to fight and defend this well. It makes for a really, really intriguing final week, with lots of questions!

Forgetting about points and potential difficulties moving forward due to scoring less than hoped and expected here, it will be a thrilling final week. Nothing Malecki has shown in the second half of this second week makes me think he'll be an "easy target" for Taaramäe and the other GC riders, quite the contrary.
 
matt17br
Thanks for all the great reporting Fabianski!
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alexkr00
knockout wrote:
alexkr00 wrote:
cio93 wrote:
If we still had unlimited training, I would sell every single rider but Herklotz.


I'm sure everyone would agree to make an exception for this, but you'd have to sell every single one of them Pfft

Sorry, I know you are upset. I don't understand what's happening with Demare either.


Please dont speak for everyone else. Herklotz with 85MO, 83HI is not sth i would want to see... Pfft


Uh, but you see, you are making a rookie mistake. You think Lopez and Herklotz
would be in the same races. But you need to put Lopez in exactly the races where you know Herklotz won't be. Why? Because those would be breakaway galore as no one would dare bring back the breakaway only for Herklotz to win and Puma definitely wouldn't be able to catch a breakaway. They just sold their entire team.

So send your breakaway monsters to Herklotz races and Lopez to the others. Profit.

Follow me for more management game advices.
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valverde321
alexkr00 wrote:
knockout wrote:
alexkr00 wrote:
cio93 wrote:
If we still had unlimited training, I would sell every single rider but Herklotz.


I'm sure everyone would agree to make an exception for this, but you'd have to sell every single one of them Pfft

Sorry, I know you are upset. I don't understand what's happening with Demare either.


Please dont speak for everyone else. Herklotz with 85MO, 83HI is not sth i would want to see... Pfft


Uh, but you see, you are making a rookie mistake. You think Lopez and Herklotz
would be in the same races. But you need to put Lopez in exactly the races where you know Herklotz won't be. Why? Because those would be breakaway galore as no one would dare bring back the breakaway only for Herklotz to win and Puma definitely wouldn't be able to catch a breakaway. They just sold their entire team.

So send your breakaway monsters to Herklotz races and Lopez to the others. Profit.

Follow me for more management game advices.


It seems teams with 8 riders cant even bring the breakaway back Pfft
 
OlegTinkov
Another good stage for Kritskiy, too bad Barguil and Taaramäe gained some bonus seconds, but we are still in a good position in the General Rankings.

Apparently (reading all the comments) I'm one of the few who is actually enjoying this Giro, the reports are amazing and comparing it with the Giro 2020 irl it's quite similar (João Almeida leading the race for 15 days and 13 different stage winners)

Fabianski wrote: Sorry, guys - I hope you won't shoot the messenger...

Quite the opposite, I applaud the messenger on a daily basis!
 
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cio93
OlegTinkov wrote:
Apparently (reading all the comments) I'm one of the few who is actually enjoying this Giro, the reports are amazing and comparing it with the Giro 2020 irl it's quite similar (João Almeida leading the race for 15 days and 13 different stage winners)


You mean the race Arnaud Demare won four stages in? Frown
 
OlegTinkov
cio93 wrote:
OlegTinkov wrote:
Apparently (reading all the comments) I'm one of the few who is actually enjoying this Giro, the reports are amazing and comparing it with the Giro 2020 irl it's quite similar (João Almeida leading the race for 15 days and 13 different stage winners)

You mean the race Arnaud Demare won four stages in? Frown

Yes I mean that race Smile, Demare can still win stage 13 tomorrow, plus stage 17 and stage 21!
 
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roturn
cio93 wrote:
OlegTinkov wrote:
Apparently (reading all the comments) I'm one of the few who is actually enjoying this Giro, the reports are amazing and comparing it with the Giro 2020 irl it's quite similar (João Almeida leading the race for 15 days and 13 different stage winners)


You mean the race Arnaud Demare won four stages in? Frown

Obviously I am also in the opinion that Demare should have won 1-2 stages by now here.

But when going back 2 years, when he won 6? stages in the Giro, he also took profit from bad AI as his biggest opponent stat wise in Groenewegen was not participating at all in the sprints.
And he did win 4 GT stages the previous year, so clearly was capable of doing so again.

Neither is ideal, but sometimes things work better and sometimes worse than ideally.
 
SotD
We finally got the right guy in the break - and then it's the one stage which doesn't go to the break.

Obviously I had hoped to see Aidan being atleast similarly strong as Roman, but 2nd would have atleast been a good stage result.

Here after 12 stages we still don't have a stagepodium, and only 4 top 10 results. And basically all our best stages are now gone and moving into the final 1/3 of the race soon we usually see stronger riders making the selection - and we don't have them unfortunately. Especially seeing Bongiorno riding for a top 10 (which he won't get).

Now possibly the last really good stage to come for Nizzolo, as the last two stages haven't been THAT difficult and he haven't been working in the front a lot. After that a TT and 2 mountain stages that will see Bongiorno drop to around 17th.

Zoidl (despite being a decent climber) sucks in the breaks so I don't even know who I would like to see join the break anymore. I guess Mavrikakis just because it would be cool to see a pure greek climber go for it - but he has zero chance of a good stageresult.

For the points to be "fairly" distributed I guess I'll be just hoping for the GC riders to battle it out now and for Bongiorno to overperform.
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Fabianski
roturn wrote:
cio93 wrote:
OlegTinkov wrote:
Apparently (reading all the comments) I'm one of the few who is actually enjoying this Giro, the reports are amazing and comparing it with the Giro 2020 irl it's quite similar (João Almeida leading the race for 15 days and 13 different stage winners)


You mean the race Arnaud Demare won four stages in? Frown

Obviously I am also in the opinion that Demare should have won 1-2 stages by now here.

But when going back 2 years, when he won 6? stages in the Giro, he also took profit from bad AI as his biggest opponent stat wise in Groenewegen was not participating at all in the sprints.
And he did win 4 GT stages the previous year, so clearly was capable of doing so again.

Neither is ideal, but sometimes things work better and sometimes worse than ideally.

I guess 2 stage podiums out of three flat stages shouldn't be the main thing to complain about; both could easily have been wins as well with a slightly better timing.

What must be really frustrating though - and I can get that - are the hilly stages, which all bar stage 12 (thanks to big work of Demare) went to the breakaway. All those who sent strong puncheurs to the race clearly suffered from that - for sure it's mainly Demare, being by far the best sprinter among them... But well, I can't change the AI, sorry guys...
 
Croatia14
Fabianski wrote:
What must be really frustrating though - and I can get that - are the hilly stages, which all bar stage 12 (thanks to big work of Demare) went to the breakaway. All those who sent strong puncheurs to the race clearly suffered from that - for sure it's mainly Demare, being by far the best sprinter among them... But well, I can't change the AI, sorry guys...


But hill riders (should) have never been more than breakaway guys in GTs. And f.e. Petr Vakoc, one of the best puncheurs here, did f.e. lead the KOM for some time due to being in the break.

In terms of Demare I think cio just made a huge mistake sending Arndt here who the game sees as enough of a threat to work for on harder stages. Had they sent a team full of helpers for Demare in anticipation of a dominant field for him things may have looked different cause they wouldn't have held back for Arndt. I did the same mistake at the Vuelta 2019, where Keizer prevented my team from working for Kump on the hilly sprint stages where we were the clear favourites otherwise.
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SotD
Honestly I just think the AI is broken. No need to overthink on reasons. There seem to be every bit as much evidence for as against.

This time Demare got unlucky (we have been too) - last time he was incredibly lucky Smile
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Eden95
Thanks for the amazing reporting Fabianski! They’ve been a joy to read despite the wackiness they contain. It’s certainly frustrating with Malecki leading (and also pretty interesting!) as the usual breakaway suspects in GT hill/mountain stages have been unable to join breaks as yet because anyone half decent at riding uphill are 10-15mins down and all clumped too close together to get away. That’s why it’s so frustrating - basically every stage is impacted. GC crucial stages where the break survives and the GC guys are passive and gain no points, sprint stages which end with break victories and then the teams with strong break riders can’t benefit because they’re too close together with the gc guys due to the racing so far.
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Fabianski
Sorry guys, just noticed now that the character limit is slightly lower than what I thought. I will fix the team standings later on, don't have time right now.

Oh well, and I guess Demare now has slightly better chances to get his contract renewed Pfft Congrats!
 
Croatia14
Oh no, the AI is broken. A sprinter won despite the leadout working on the day. Call off the Giro, it's all a fraud. It's a hoax created by China!
 
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