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PCM.daily Stat Discussion
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Posted on 02-03-2021 03:53
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Ollfardh
I see Kuss more as a climber and Bennett more as a puncheur. I'd take De Plus over both though, he's the better allrounder.

Edit: Well he was anyway, it seems they're punishing him with no races this year cause he might go to Ineos.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
 
StevenGreen
Do you think De Plus should have a higher mountain stat than either Kuss or Bennett?
"He made a bigger comeback than Easter Sunday."



 
Arberg
Tafiolmo wrote:
Ok some good opinions from both Olifardh and Arberg here.

If we ACCEPT that Pinot is actually the best climber then 82 is correct and it could work with very low rec and also given that his team is not overly strong as a climbing team then this would work too BUT bear in mind that he has higher hill than Bernal which makes him stronger and is also a little bit better at TT as well. If it wasn't for his performance at Dauphine on the final stage then I would risk 82 mtn. After Roglic withdrew Pinot should've won yesterday but as usual an up and down performance within the stage along with Pinot getting a whole load of help from other French riders still wasn't enough to stop Martinez who looked both cool and smooth, it's stuff like this that raises questions over Pinot!

Uran is a hard one and I have put him to 78/78 with Martinez upgraded to 79/76 and Woods in that team to 77/80. The idea here is to now give Martinez possible GT leadership in that team but recognizes that Uran may well be the most balanced in his stats and Woods the best hill rider.

Thomas looks like being a Wiggins where winning the Tour seems to have been the ultimate achievement and the ability to repeat it ssems unlikely. He could work on 79 and certaily looks inferior to Dumoulin a rider very similar to him but I'm certain all the Ineos riders though will peak at the Tour because the team are so good at GT's. Froome though is another question Smile

Also my gut feeling for Nibali is 79 but will get Croatia's opinion on the DB Team and listen to other suggestions here.


Pinot > Bernal
Ineos > Pinot

Pinot is better than Bernal. Bernal just has a better much better team!
 
Arberg
Bennett: MO:77 HI:80
Kuss: MO:79 HI:75
De Plus: MO:78 HI: 77
Edited by Arberg on 17-08-2020 14:31
 
Ollfardh
StevenGreen wrote:
Do you think De Plus should have a higher mountain stat than either Kuss or Bennett?


Bennett yes, Kuss no after his Dauphiné. But that's based on last year TDF mostly, as they've not giving De Plus any racedays so far.

I'd give something like
Bennett: 77MO/80Hill
Kuss: 79MO/75hill
De Plus 78MO/77Hill and best TT stats of the 3
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
 
Arberg
What about Fuglsang ?

He is the world best in one day races with many climbs and world class in week long stage races. However he does not have REC to 3 weeks.
Edited by Arberg on 17-08-2020 14:45
 
Tafiolmo
Olifardh/Steve Ok this is what we have in the DB and Kuss imo is the best climber, De Plus the best overall but needs more races to show this and Bennett more of a rider in good form. Bear in mind Kuss is a young rider and we tend to stat them high in what they are good at but with low back up stats until they have a more proven record.

Kuss 79/75 (low back ups)
Bennett 78/79 (as I've noticed he has more of a proven record in mtn than hill)
De Plus 77/78 (high res at 76 and he's riding the Giro I see so best to assess him then)

Arberg Fuglsang is unchanged and has 79/80 with low rec but very high res at 78 and these stats make him one of the strongest in the DB as he has good flat, cobble, high sta and DH as well. The most stylish looking rider in the peloton on a bike as well but we don't have a stat for that Smile
pcmdaily.com/files/exppack/PCM2020/dbteambanner2021.png
 
Arberg
Fuglsang and Alaphilippe should have the same in hill, difference them between is ACC and SP, but they are really close Grin
Edited by Arberg on 17-08-2020 15:47
 
Tafiolmo
Tafiolmo wrote:
[quote]Arberg wrote:
Fuglsang and Alaphilippe should have the same in hill, difference between is ACC and SP.


If that's the case then Fuglsang would be the much stronger rider overall because of his higher mtn. The last Lombardia I played it was won by Fuglsang and he was too strong there for riders like Alaphilippe and Bernal. Stonger than Alaphilippe in his mtn stat and stronger than Bernal with his hill etc and also he did most of the attacking before his winning move which is also using up energy.
pcmdaily.com/files/exppack/PCM2020/dbteambanner2021.png
 
Arberg
Tafiolmo wrote:
Arberg wrote:
Fuglsang and Alaphilippe should have the same in hill, difference between is ACC and SP.


If that's the case then Fuglsang would be the much stronger rider overall because of his higher mtn. The last Lombardia I played it was won by Fuglsang and he was too strong there for riders like cand Bernal. Stonger than Alaphilippe in his mtn stat and stronger than Bernal with his hill etc as the race is like LBL using mostly mtn I think rather than hill

OK Smile What does Alaphilippe have in hill? Fuglsang 81 ? and Alaphilippe 82 ?

https://www.youtu...ezSbGSUrXc
Edited by Arberg on 17-08-2020 15:55
 
Tafiolmo
Arberg wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
Arberg wrote:
Fuglsang and Alaphilippe should have the same in hill, difference between is ACC and SP.


If that's the case then Fuglsang would be the much stronger rider overall because of his higher mtn. The last Lombardia I played it was won by Fuglsang and he was too strong there for riders like cand Bernal. Stonger than Alaphilippe in his mtn stat and stronger than Bernal with his hill etc as the race is like LBL using mostly mtn I think rather than hill

OK Smile What does Alaphilippe have in hill? Fuglsang 81 ? and Alaphilippe 82 ?

https://www.youtu...rKPJG37enc


Fuglsang 79/80 and Alaphilippe 77/82. It's effectively 2 points difference in their climbing and given that mtn is more dominant than hill in game in climbing this does favour Fuglsang on races like Lombardia and LBL.Also remember irl Fuglsang is in from right now and Alaphilippe isn't. but once again if enough think Fuglsang should be 81 hill then I will put him to 81.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 17-08-2020 16:01
pcmdaily.com/files/exppack/PCM2020/dbteambanner2021.png
 
Arberg
Tafiolmo wrote:
Arberg wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
Arberg wrote:
Fuglsang and Alaphilippe should have the same in hill, difference between is ACC and SP.


If that's the case then Fuglsang would be the much stronger rider overall because of his higher mtn. The last Lombardia I played it was won by Fuglsang and he was too strong there for riders like cand Bernal. Stonger than Alaphilippe in his mtn stat and stronger than Bernal with his hill etc as the race is like LBL using mostly mtn I think rather than hill

OK Smile What does Alaphilippe have in hill? Fuglsang 81 ? and Alaphilippe 82 ?

https://www.youtu...rKPJG37enc


Fuglsang 79/80 and Alaphilippe 77/82. It's effectively 2 points difference in their climbing and given that mtn is more dominant than hill in game in climbing this does favour Fuglsang on races like Lombardia and LBL.Also remember irl Fuglsang is in from right now and Alaphilippe isn't. but once again if enough think Fuglsang should be 81 hill then I will put him to 81.

Ok.

Alaphilippe has the advantage, that he can sit on wheels and wait for the sprint. Fuglsang must attack, because he is going home alone.

Fuglsang 79/81 and Alaphilippe 77/82. All the others a level or two below them.
Edited by Arberg on 17-08-2020 17:25
 
cunego59
I think 80 Hill is fine for Fuglsang. With the way the game integrates MO into hill stages, that is enough imo, especially with Fuglsang's high RES and STA. Makes him one of, maybe the best rider for races like Lombardia as Tafiolmo said, but not completely dominant, which I think he shouldn't be.
 
Ollfardh
I would like to point out that Alaphilippe has not won Liege or Lombardia, while Fuglsang has. So I'd say that rating him 2 points below Alaphilippe in hill is a bit harsh if you only give him 2 higher in MO and Alaphillipe has the better sprint/acceleration.

Furthermore, I think both are really too close to becoming top stage racers with those high mountain stats, while Alaphilippe is yet to win a WT stage race and Fuglsang at 79MO would put him on par with much better stage racers (and he still has a higher hill stat and much better backup stats).

So I'd rather see Ala at 76/82 and Fuglsang at 78/81
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
 
Ollfardh
Tafiolmo wrote:
Olifardh/Steve
De Plus 77/78 (high res at 76 and he's riding the Giro I see so best to assess him then)


Hmm, I see him more as a climber than a puncheur after last year's TDF? He really worked hard for Kruijswijk in the mountains (and lasted longer than Bennett) so 78/77 would seem more logical to me.

Let's hope he gets to ride the Giro, he was promised for le Tour ages ago but got kicked out once they heard he was in talks with Ineos.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
 
Tafiolmo
I would be concerned with putting both Fuglsang and Alaphilippe with lower mtn because especially in the case of Fuglsang as we are weakening his mtn stat which serves for LBL and Lombardia. Also in the case of Fuglsang we would be weakening his GT leadership if selected for a GT with Lopez as well. Also we've not really seen Fuglsang on top form riding a GT as sole leader and finishing the GT. For Alaphilippe he managed 5th at the Tour and for almost the final week of the Tour certain dreamers thought he could win Smile but somebody with just 76 mtn might well do this in the Giro or Vuelta but not in the Tour where the field is stronger.

I still think Fuglsang 79/80 and Alaphilippe 77/82 works best, for 78/81 and 76/82 other stats might need to be changed but will look into it. As for De Plus I will look at his stats some more too.
pcmdaily.com/files/exppack/PCM2020/dbteambanner2021.png
 
Arberg
Fuglsang 79/81 and Alaphilippe 77/82. All the others a level or two below them. Alaphilippe 5th in tour and Fuglsang won Dauphiné, so they also deserve high mountain stats with low REC.
 
Ollfardh
For Fuglsang, who else is at 79 for comparison? I do feel MAL in shape again should have leadership over Fuglsang in a GT.

For Alaphilippe, he made the French dream, but he never stood a chance. Remember he had his bonus from his great breakaway and fantastic TT, but in the mountains he completely cracked (and would've cracked further if that one stage wasn't cut early). Look at who he keeps behind him, the Movistar fail train, and Uran and Barguil who were horrible that year. He only made the top 5 because the rest was too weak. If you had the 2017 or 2018 peloton in that Tour, he'd struggle to make the top 10.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
 
Tafiolmo
MAL is 80/77 and with good res and low acc but across the board Fuglsang is probably the stronger rider.
pcmdaily.com/files/exppack/PCM2020/dbteambanner2021.png
 
Arberg
Fuglsang 78/82 and Alaphilippe 76/83. Maybe?
 
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