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19-07-2019 15:44
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PCM.daily » PCM.daily's Management Game » [Man-Game] The Rules and Announcements
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Suggestions for the 2019 Season
Yellow Jersey
I should mention df_Trek's Strade Bianche variant completely fixes that issue, makes for an actually hard race that can very easily finish in a solo/small group attack.
 
Tamijo
Haven't had time to look at this yet, but one suggestion:

Allow narrow roads in MG, why:
A: I belive that both crash and narrow roads is a part of cycling, so why not.

B: Much more important: We have a lot of issues with narrow roads as reporters, slowing down the time we could spend on racing and reporting.
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If you're interested in weird music:
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Croatia14
Test have shown a couple if times that low Mo high Hi are indeed not worse in races like Fleche Wallonne. They are however worse in races more prone to the mountain stat, which should be like this

Also, a very radical proposal: scrap 2/3 GTs and most of the boring 1-week races like TdS, Dauphine. The PT calender is incredibly boring, imo following PCT and CT is a lot more fun than PT eventhough I'm riding PT. Bring in more hybrid races, fantasy races, some sort of more choice.
 
Aquarius97
Two Divisions Proposal


At this point in the game i think it's fair to see that the amount of teams won't be increased to have a proper third division without having to do the trick of Amateur teams. I've made a count, and we have 66 teams between all 3 divisions that could continue in 2019 seasons (not counting Amateurs or roturn's "second team" ).

How would this work?

PT of 24 teams.
PCT (or CT, whether you want to call it) of 36 teams. So max of 60 teams in the game. I think we all can think of 6 teams that aren't active and will disband at the end of this season.

Why this composition?

Because of PTHC. Max teams in a band is 24, so we could fill bands in a way that PT teams ride 3 bands for CT teams riding 2, with PTHC having 5 bands (or a multiple of 5)

How does this affects overall calendar?

I've already read some comments about how large the calendar is. We would get rid of C2HC (72RDs) and C2 (65RDs), so it would be a huge less number of races in the calendar (137 less RD's). And while we should use some of those RD's to increase the calendar for the two remaining divisions, we could reduce by a good amount the overall RD's

What happens with PT wildcards?

Obviously they would disappear, which is something most PT teams would like, and i don't really see the point of teams from other division "molesting" you in "your" races without them gaining points/spending RD's. The XP gains system would need to be adjusted for CT teams to gain the XP they gained until now with wildcards

Promotion/relegation

With 24 teams in the first division and 36 in the second, i think there should be 8 spots of promotion/relegation in each division, to avoid CT being a very static division in terms of teams

Budget depending on team standings

Without the risk of relegation, i'm quite sure some teams that don't feel like they can make a promotion charge would rather tank and sign young promising riders in order to be good in the future (The Proccess). This is clearly a low-risk high-reward tactic, as whether you end up 12th or 34th it won't matter next season. Whether it would be salary cap or team budget the one affected, some sort of "penalty/reward" to all teams depending on their finishing position in the previous season should be important, in order to motivate the teams to compete for finishing as high as possible, not the opposite

HC Bands

36 teams with 24 teams riding in each band. That means that every team would have to be in 2/3 total bands. Maybe something like 9 bands where you choose 6, or maybe something like 7/11 (so there's lesser chance of having to compete in bands you didn't want to)

Change of salary cap

PT salary cap should be raised to 4M, while PCT could remain at 2.5M. Also, there should be a hard cap during renewals, with the exception of relegating teams, that could have a "softer" cap, that would allow them to go over their new cap by 10% of it (in this case their hard cap would be 2.75M)



Surely there are more things related to this change, but those are the principals that came to my mind
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sammyt93
Does pcm18 have big crashes where riders retire or is it more just lots of smaller crashes where riders chase back on? If we do change games and bring back crashes that woukd make a difference depending on which one it is.
 
baseballlover312
Aquarius97 wrote:
Two Divisions Proposal


At this point in the game i think it's fair to see that the amount of teams won't be increased to have a proper third division without having to do the trick of Amateur teams. I've made a count, and we have 66 teams between all 3 divisions that could continue in 2019 seasons (not counting Amateurs or roturn's "second team" ).

How would this work?

PT of 24 teams.
PCT (or CT, whether you want to call it) of 36 teams. So max of 60 teams in the game. I think we all can think of 6 teams that aren't active and will disband at the end of this season.

...

Change of salary cap

PT salary cap should be raised to 4M, while PCT could remain at 2.5M. Also, there should be a hard cap during renewals, with the exception of relegating teams, that could have a "softer" cap, that would allow them to go over their new cap by 10% of it (in this case their hard cap would be 2.75M)


I've been thinking about this for a while, and it's really unfortunate that we've gotten to the point where this may be necessary. That being said, contraction is a lot more difficult than expansion in terms of fitting with our established database continuity. Cutting more teams and having only two divisions would making stat inflation even worse, at least short term. Also requires restructuring of pretty much everything, as you've gone into.

I've been advocating for a higher PT salary cap for a while now. The level of competition in PT and PCT has been way too similar for too long imo. Of course, with PTHC in the game now, that might be advantageous for competitiveness's sake. But I think it's kind of silly to have so many world beating leaders in lower divisions, as we have had the past few years.
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Tamijo
sammyt93 wrote:
Does pcm18 have big crashes where riders retire or is it more just lots of smaller crashes where riders chase back on? If we do change games and bring back crashes that woukd make a difference depending on which one it is.


In PCM18 (riding with .7 crash ratio) I have seen both smaller and huge crashes it is very mixed, sometimes riders retire from race but mostly they just loose time and quite often get back if not a very late crash, often to get the "expected" outcome.
A single time I have seen a huge number retire.


A few riders will continue with some injuries leaving them weak for some days.
i.imgur.com/nEJjzHN.png


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jandal7
Really not a fan of the move back to two divisions but obviously may be necessary if we lose a good chunk more teams.

PT salary cap going up is interesting. Could possibly go with Croatia's idea of some big calendar changes as PT snap up more leaders for more types of races.

As for Croatia's idea, not agreeing with going that overboard but making more interesting races instead of the standard ones would make it more fun I'm sure. Should be up to the PT managers to a degree though Pfft

Tamijo's idea of narrow roads: really not a fan of narrow roads in PCM15 and from my experience in 18 as well, though I have a feeling it may have improved? Worth testing but probably not. Especially if we stay with PCM15, we have basically eradicated them all so no reason to go back Pfft

Mre's idea for different prices for training in the different divisions is intriguing as well, would like to hear more opinion on it as it seems good.
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[CX] Listerijns & BoK

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Croatia14
Narrow roads are part of the game, as in to races. There is no point of narrow roads being prohibited as they offer a real life matter and better high flat riders
 
AbhishekLFC
Salary Caps
The salary cap structure changing to 4m, 2.5m and 1.2m sounds good to me. I would even advocate PCT and CT salary caps being brought down instead of raising the PT the salary cap to control some of the inflated wages that are thrown around. Something like 3.6m, 2.3m and 1m would also work for me. The change should be a gradual one over at least two seasons, and not a one shot change for the 2019 season.

Team Sizes
I do believe there is a need to have different team sizes for each division. 15 riders (plus the 2 rider draft, if it stays) for CT seems perfect. PCT and PT teams shouldn't have the same team sizes.

- If budgets of PCT and CT are decreased, the team sizes should become 20, 18 and 15 (+2) for PT, PCT and CT respectively.
- If the budget of PT is increased to 4m, the team sizes should change to 22, 20 and 15 (+2) for PT, PCT and CT respectively.

Division Changes
I'm not a fan of going back to two divisions even if the number of teams reduces further and goes to say 60, like Aquarius mentioned. PT and PCT would run smoothly with 20 teams each, with the rest making up the CT division. I don't think 2/6 lesser teams will change the race dynamics hugely. The amateur teams already exist for CT, so no reason to scrap them if the respective managers are willing to continue. They can continue to be filled in by the draft method as followed this season.

Startlist Size
Is it time to look at 7 riders per team in races as in real life? Will moving from 176 riders plus a control team to 154 riders plus a control team (in PT) have much impact in terms of the racing?
 
jandal7
Could we update the xmls to make points jerseys at least possible for sprinters to win in stage races - not in Andorra etc. but in GTs, Suisse, Vancouver etc?
ALLEZ ALLEZ ALLEZ

30/12/14 - matt17br said "Sutty's birthday is more important than [Jesus' Birthday]"
[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | The Life And Times | [PCT] i.imgur.com/c85NSl6.png Xero Racing p/b Octagon
[CX] Listerijns & BoK

i.imgur.com/PdCbs9I.png
i.imgur.com/RPIlJYr.png
i.imgur.com/olRsxdu.png
 
Tamijo
jandal7 wrote:

Tamijo's idea of narrow roads: really not a fan of narrow roads in PCM15 and from my experience in 18 as well, though I have a feeling it may have improved? Worth testing but probably not. Especially if we stay with PCM15, we have basically eradicated them all so no reason to go back


Well if they dont show up often why ban them, in case they should pop up once in a while. Im not asking for them, just want to ignore them in the situations where they do sneak in.

I have created a few races in 2018, often with narrow roads where they belong.
Have seen no unreal results.
i.imgur.com/nEJjzHN.png


If you're interested in weird music:
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knockout
Originally wanted to post a proper analysis with numbers but havent found the time yet so just a quick post:

I'd like to see the update to the OVR formula / renewals wage formula from last season taken back a bit.

1. Sprinters seem to be too highly rated. I'm not speaking about PT leaders but rather those with 76-79 SP. It's especially notably for riders with solid (like 72) HI, CB or great ACC (80+) stats. Guys like Tobyn Horton, Janis Dakteris, Wouter Wippert, Dan McLay, Kristian Sbaragli, Heiko Redecker or Mustafa Carsi. I felt like most seemed to realize it last season as those kind of riders often got released or sold for very little even when the managers previously liked those riders.

Spoiler
I also dislike it at the top with Van Stayen having an higher OVR than Gesink, Schleck, Herklotz or Dombo and Kump being far too close to Grosu and above someone like Alarcon or Lutsenko (but personally I'd rather have it fixed for the majority of riders and have some team leaders be of too good/bad value than the other way round)


I'd have to speculate a bit but perhaps there were effects due to a rouleur category (to raise the wages of Stoltz Pfft) that raised the sprinters wages too much since those often have quite similar stats like FL or ACC?

2. Wage Inflation: Last season we've got a big increase to the average overall due to a changed update. I feel like the wage demands didnt reflect that as basically every (super) domestique above min wage levels demanded more than the average rise of OVR would have demanded. Maybe a small reduction would be good?

A Big Thank You To All MG And ICL Reporters!
And To All Who Organize Something On Daily As Well!


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knockout
Another thing that came to my mind:

Bands selection

https://pcmdaily....t_1299652:
While theoretically it would have been possible for all teams to receive at worst their 3rd choice, this was not possible following the guidelines of "If a choice is over subscribed, then the earliest PMs will get it." Hence, it is the case that some of the later returners do receive their 4th choice, unfortunately.


I'd like to see this changed. Time of submission should be less important than the Xth choice they would get. I struggle to word this understandably so here is an example:

Exactly one of the following changes is necessary:
Team A could go from 2nd choice to 3rd choice
Team B could go from 2nd choice to 3rd choice
Team C could go from 2nd choice to 4th choice

Order of submission: 1.A -- 2.B -- 3.C


In this scenario I'd like to see B moved to their third choice since C should have priority over A and B due to not being able to get into their 3rd choice either and A has priority over B due to earlier time of submission.

A Big Thank You To All MG And ICL Reporters!
And To All Who Organize Something On Daily As Well!


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roturn
Croatia14 wrote:
Narrow roads are part of the game, as in to races. There is no point of narrow roads being prohibited as they offer a real life matter and better high flat riders

Late response but better now than never. Pfft More might follow, once I have more time to check all the suggestions.

That`s something that isn`t really correct imo.

Yes in real life it belongs to cycling and can give advantage to flat riders.

In PCM though flat riders might still be at the end of the peloton for no reason at all and once on the narrow roads they get blocked and dropped. Even their high flat doesn`t necessarily help them then to get back soon.

When playing yourself it might be an advantage. When being AI controlled, it`s pure luck if your team is placed well or not, so nothing that ideally works in an AI controlled Man Game and hence something that imo should be avoided.
 
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