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14-08-2020 21:07
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PCM.daily » Pro Cycling Manager 2018 » PCM 18: General
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Too easy to play - Too difficult to simulate
Switters
I'm very new to the game and loving it so far. Playing on Pro cyclist mode with no pausing on extreme difficulty, it is not easy to win races at all.

The only thing I would say is that level ups come too quickly, at least at first. I'm already the best rider on my team and I'm only half way through the first season and the only race I've actually won was a short time trial.

Maybe a way to combat that is to set starting potential to its lowest level, rather then world class, and then have a house rule of alternating level ups between a stat boost and a potential boost? Would that create more longevity in a game do you think?
 
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Ripley
Yeah, you get very good very quickly, you'll be a top rider at the age of 25 or so. What would be nice is to change the XP required to reach the next level, but I don't know if that is possible. Possibly the best/only thing you can do is increase your stats manually. Use an editor after every time you level up and take away some of the stat points you gained. And then add points once in a while after you've reached the max level (26, I think).
i.imgur.com/itY17df.png

pcmdaily.com/files/Awards2019/team%20story.png
pcmdaily.com/files/Awards2019/avatar.png
 
Switters
Not used the editor yet, is it easy to get to grips with?

Defo agree with changing the XP required, I reckon an extra 10-15% on all levels would make it more realistic and would be very easy to implement surely.

Would my method of alternating stat boost and potential boost work though? Not sure what difference starting on excellent rather than world class makes? Does the starting age make a difference too?
 
Ripley
I only have PCM 17, if it hasn't changed then the potential doesn't make a difference in the progression speed. Just the maximum each stat can reach will be lower. And the starting age doesn't really help because older riders start with better stats.

Changing the XP required per level would be easy to implement for the developer, but we can only change things that use the table format of the database and I haven't seen a corresponding table.

Using an editor isn't hard, might look a bit daunting at first. Every savegame is a database, so download Lachi's Editor and open your current savegame. Then select a table from the drop-down menu, the table you'll be most interested in is dyn_cyclist. Find your own cyclist and you can see all his stats and their limits and change them at will. When finished, save the database, you can overwrite your savegame or create a new save which you can then load when you start the game. There are further guides on this website, check the tips&tricks section.
i.imgur.com/itY17df.png

pcmdaily.com/files/Awards2019/team%20story.png
pcmdaily.com/files/Awards2019/avatar.png
 
Switters
Got the editor sorted, cheers for that. What kind of changes make it tougher but still fun? Lowering all starting stats by one? More than that?
 
Ripley
Up to you, really. I don't think the starting stats are a problem, or rather, you'll be able to fulfil objectives, gain XP and level up quickly even with a weaker rider. I'd probably flesh out the mid game. It would mirror real life if at the start of a new season your rider suddenly loses -3 in all stats and struggles to repeat his previous successes. Whatever is fun for you.
i.imgur.com/itY17df.png

pcmdaily.com/files/Awards2019/team%20story.png
pcmdaily.com/files/Awards2019/avatar.png
 
Switters
Rolled a new cyclist to run a test. Took three points off all stats at the start and I’ve now done two stages. Both times I got my main achievement of leading the group for twenty kms, but used a lot more energy than before and then struggled to stay in the peloton. In fact first stage I finished four minutes back after running out of yellow bar with about 7kms to go. Second stage was much better, finished in the leading group but had to watch things the entire race. Whole thing feels more like it should for a first year pro rider. I still feel I’m making progress and building up XP, but winning stages or even high placings will be a real achievement.
 
Switters
I'm looking at editing the difficulty level using Lachi, but can't find the right database file. Looks like is should be sta-race-difficulty but that doesn't seem to exist. Has it changed to a different file name?

Cheers in advance for any help
 
purepasd
Switters wrote:
I'm looking at editing the difficulty level using Lachi, but can't find the right database file. Looks like is should be sta-race-difficulty but that doesn't seem to exist. Has it changed to a different file name?

Cheers in advance for any help

Here you go:
https://pcmdaily....st_1288014
 
sobrano
I won giro d'italia with a MON 81 HIL 76 and TT 76 REC 76
I playied at extreme and I think it was funny but too easy to win. I won all mountain stages and i finished with +6m09s from second and my leader was alone without a teammate who helped him on climbing.
For sprints too I am able to win lot of sprint (not everyone) with a medium train SP79 +SP78+SP76
I dont know if change to 1.075 or 1.10.
I want to fight hard to win a grand tour, I mean I think i should use a teammate to save up the leader energy in order to win a stage, but at the same time I dont want the game became impossible or not realistic to win.
what do u suggest? which difficulty I should set up?

Wink
 
Tamijo
As mentioned before dont pause (too much)
Very hard to make a game that is not easy it you pause 20-30 times during a stage.
If you do not pause Extreme is not too easy.
 
Yellow Jersey
Personally I feel really unfonfortable if I don't pause, hate me but it's how I like to play Pfft

I play with 1,15, which yes is pretty hard. In the classics, and 1-week Tours it's really hard to get majour wins, but I think that's perfect cause the more challenging the better, it's not high enough to prevent you from winning. And for the GT's it becomes more balanced. Did a season with INEOS recently, Giro 3rd with Froome, Tour 2nd with Thomas (could've won tho) and Vuelta won with Froome Poels 4th.

So between 1,10 and 1,15 if you're looking to get a real challenge I guess, it's been a while I've been with this dificulty so I don't remember how it is with others
 
sobrano
Tamijo wrote:
As mentioned before dont pause (too much)
Very hard to make a game that is not easy it you pause 20-30 times during a stage.
If you do not pause Extreme is not too easy.


i dont pause. btw it is not so much differences in mountain stages. it is a good challenge for sprint train. btw I do a train of 5 from -30km and i use keys 1-2-3-4-5 for the 5 train riders and i use the shortkeys (as "A" for launch sprint). by playing like this it is not so hard play sprints even if I dont use pause.
 
Tamijo
Makes it harder to counter attacks and keep control of every rider in the squad at the same time, I do belive it makes the game a lot harder.
 
TiemenD
To elaborate a bit more on the "difficult to simulate" part of the OP, I've copied this from a post I made over ayear ago on PCM 17, the AI cheats in sprint-stages when simulating: (but you can fix it):

I found out in the XML files (cyclingmanager\xml\simu folder) that the strategy you choose has impact on the Simulated result.

The table DYN_Race_Status has some values for each cyclist in the race '(also AI cyclists). It tells the game how the cyclist will 'behave' during the race.

the strange thing is now, the simulated result only uses these orders for the player, for the AI, it just uses a general "AI" instruction. (however the values for ai riders are present in the database and it would be much more fair & logical & realistic that it uses these values instead of just an AI instuction)

ever found it difficult to win a mass sprint in quick simulation? this is the reason, the xml files for mass sprint contains this:

<inrace_order name="JOUER_LA_VICTOIRE_SI_SPRINT_MASSIF" coeff="20"/>
<inrace_order name="IA" coeff="30"/>
<inrace_order name="ETRE_POISSON_PILOTE" coeff="5"/>

This means that if a cyclist has the order JOUER_LA_VICTOIRE_SI_SPRINT_MASSIF (=a sprinter that goes for the stage victory), you get 20 points extra during the simulation. If it's a "sprint pilote" you get 5.

seems logical, but remember, the AI cyclists don't get these bonusses, but get the "IA" bonus... so all AI cyclists, sprinters, pilotes and all other, get a 30 point bonus....
 
sobrano
TiemenD wrote:
To elaborate a bit more on the "difficult to simulate" part of the OP, I've copied this from a post I made over ayear ago on PCM 17, the AI cheats in sprint-stages when simulating: (but you can fix it):

I found out in the XML files (cyclingmanager\xml\simu folder) that the strategy you choose has impact on the Simulated result.

The table DYN_Race_Status has some values for each cyclist in the race '(also AI cyclists). It tells the game how the cyclist will 'behave' during the race.

the strange thing is now, the simulated result only uses these orders for the player, for the AI, it just uses a general "AI" instruction. (however the values for ai riders are present in the database and it would be much more fair & logical & realistic that it uses these values instead of just an AI instuction)

ever found it difficult to win a mass sprint in quick simulation? this is the reason, the xml files for mass sprint contains this:

<inrace_order name="JOUER_LA_VICTOIRE_SI_SPRINT_MASSIF" coeff="20"/>
<inrace_order name="IA" coeff="30"/>
<inrace_order name="ETRE_POISSON_PILOTE" coeff="5"/>

This means that if a cyclist has the order JOUER_LA_VICTOIRE_SI_SPRINT_MASSIF (=a sprinter that goes for the stage victory), you get 20 points extra during the simulation. If it's a "sprint pilote" you get 5.

seems logical, but remember, the AI cyclists don't get these bonusses, but get the "IA" bonus... so all AI cyclists, sprinters, pilotes and all other, get a 30 point bonus....


really very interesting, I was lf some modification to do in order to redeuce the probability to win simulated race. So if i well understand, for my purpose I shoud edit all coeff to 0 but the AI coeff who i should keep it at 30 right? in order to dont have bonuses in sim races and dont win!
is it correct?
 
TiemenD
Yes, if you really want to make simulation harder (god knows why Grin )
but the easiest thing to achieve this is to search the xml/simu folder with a tool (like notepad++, edit -> find in files) and search for inrace_order name="IA" and give the AI a larger bonus. that will be easier than editing all human instructions
 
sobrano
TiemenD wrote:
Yes, if you really want to make simulation harder (god knows why Grin )


really ty i will do that.
eheh yes I want make sim harder because I like to play all race in 3D , I simulate only the races where i am not interested i.e. the races just for gain peak form points. At the same time I dont want that AI get good results at my place so a solution for me is to make harder sim in order to do not win Smile
the only way to win I want is play 3d race at extreme lvl modded to 1.10 difficulty
 
Switters
Just a quick update on my game, took three pints off all stats at the start and have just finished first season. Was great fun, only won two races and struggled for large parts of the season. Finished the season at level 13. Felt far more realistic than previous seasons and the wins were very satisfying. Second season is proving a challenge as I’ve gone up to Conti level and I’m a bit out of my depth. Great fun though.
 
Scarponi111
TiemenD wrote:
To elaborate a bit more on the "difficult to simulate" part of the OP, I've copied this from a post I made over ayear ago on PCM 17, the AI cheats in sprint-stages when simulating: (but you can fix it):

I found out in the XML files (cyclingmanager\xml\simu folder) that the strategy you choose has impact on the Simulated result.

The table DYN_Race_Status has some values for each cyclist in the race '(also AI cyclists). It tells the game how the cyclist will 'behave' during the race.

the strange thing is now, the simulated result only uses these orders for the player, for the AI, it just uses a general "AI" instruction. (however the values for ai riders are present in the database and it would be much more fair & logical & realistic that it uses these values instead of just an AI instuction)

ever found it difficult to win a mass sprint in quick simulation? this is the reason, the xml files for mass sprint contains this:

<inrace_order name="JOUER_LA_VICTOIRE_SI_SPRINT_MASSIF" coeff="20"/>
<inrace_order name="IA" coeff="30"/>
<inrace_order name="ETRE_POISSON_PILOTE" coeff="5"/>

This means that if a cyclist has the order JOUER_LA_VICTOIRE_SI_SPRINT_MASSIF (=a sprinter that goes for the stage victory), you get 20 points extra during the simulation. If it's a "sprint pilote" you get 5.

seems logical, but remember, the AI cyclists don't get these bonusses, but get the "IA" bonus... so all AI cyclists, sprinters, pilotes and all other, get a 30 point bonus....



sorry which is the file xml to edit? flat_peloton? flat_main? flat_events... I can't find the inrace_order name="IA" line in anyone of them
 
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