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Contador for Astana
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| Podium place |
Posted on 04-10-2007 17:23
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Stagiare
Posts: 194
Joined: 11-06-2007
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I dont know....I have mixed feelings about this |
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| Smoothie |
Posted on 04-10-2007 17:30
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Team Leader
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Podium place wrote:
I dont know....I have mixed feelings about this
If they wernt all doped there would be no problem, hes basically just going back to his old team. |
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| Podium place |
Posted on 04-10-2007 17:32
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Stagiare
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Yeah thats right but I just did`nt want Contador to go to the dopeheads unless he is one himself |
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| Smoothie |
Posted on 04-10-2007 17:53
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Team Leader
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You have to remember that the "new" astana is going to be "nothing like" the old one  |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 20:36
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Bot Agent
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 04-10-2007 18:12
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Grand Tour Champion
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Smoothie wrote:
You have to remember that the "new" astana is going to be "nothing like" the old one
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight
THE THOMAS VOECKLER PROPHET OF PCM DAILY
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| Smoothie |
Posted on 04-10-2007 18:13
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Team Leader
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Yeah exactly what i thought  |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 04-10-2007 19:01
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Tour de France Champion
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the amazing thing is that there are actually people who think Bruyneel is going there to clean it up 
how blind can you be......it's like hiring Dracula to guard a bloodbank...
Edited by issoisso on 04-10-2007 20:28
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| ruben |
Posted on 04-10-2007 20:04
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Grand Tour Champion
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Astana press officer denied that Contador is going to Astana...
reminds me of this guy
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| Dankan |
Posted on 04-10-2007 20:41
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Protected Rider
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No positive cases in Bruyneel's team in a decade. Only suspicious people. Hard to show that as GM when you get such great riders. It's a honourable man for me. |
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| Smoothie |
Posted on 04-10-2007 20:44
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Team Leader
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If contador is going there, Bruyneel might get another TDF thats always good |
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| Podium place |
Posted on 04-10-2007 22:07
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Stagiare
Posts: 194
Joined: 11-06-2007
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Hope Bruyneel can clean it up even thou i have my suspicions |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 05-10-2007 07:39
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Grand Tour Specialist
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Podium place wrote:
Hope Bruyneel can clean it up even thou i have my suspicions I doubt he can clean it, but I'd say he can make it almost sure they won't get caught any more.  |
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| Smoothie |
Posted on 05-10-2007 07:40
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Team Leader
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Hide it under the rug so to speek instead of using a hoover |
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| drugsdontwork |
Posted on 05-10-2007 08:52
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Alright, I'm going to show my naivety/gullibility here but some one has to!
I agree that durgs have permiated the cycling world and also agree that Discovery (as well as every other team in the peleton) at some point MUST have had dopers on their team (Herras, Basso, etc). However to condemn Bruyneel (and hence every team he joins) without conclusive evidence is a dangerous precedent to set.
I accept that Astana (and their previous incarnation) as a team have had more than their fair share of dopers, however they must be given a chance to change. I give to you the example of T-Mobile. As we have discovered lately, they themselves had problems with drugs (Riis, Zabel, Ullrich). However they are now held as a shining light in the fight against doping.
I am willing to be proved wrong, and if Bruyneel is proven to run a systematic doping program then may he burn in the fires of hell for further damaging the sport I love. However, until this time we cannot condemn him with no evidence.
I'm not a Discovery/Bruyneel/Armstrong etc. fan but some balance must be shown in any discussion. |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 05-10-2007 09:03
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I'm not fond of seeing formerly doped riders becoming sports directors in pro teams (or even in amateur ones after all), although I can't remember Bruyneel being positive himself, there's little doubt about the fact he was taking it (being a Saiz' rider...).
Then, he's the one who made his team work with Michele Ferrari, the notorious doctor, specialist in all that's blood doping related, and who once claimed EPO was not more dangerous than drinking orange juice.
Add to that that his team has had its share of doped riders (but caught before or after leaving the team, for most of them), that he's mocking ethic rules by hiring riders like Davis or Basso, that portraits you the kind of man he is, the kind of person cycling doesn't need, for the sake of its credibility (regarding ethic).
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| issoisso |
Posted on 05-10-2007 09:09
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
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Aquarius wrote:
I'm not fond of seeing formerly doped riders becoming sports directors in pro teams (or even in amateur ones after all), although I can't remember Bruyneel being positive himself, there's little doubt about the fact he was taking it (being a Saiz' rider...).
the same as with his riders: a gargantuan amount of circumstancial evidence but no actual positive tests.
is it me or didn't he as a rider set the record for the fastest tour de france stage at the height of the 90s doping age?
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| drugsdontwork |
Posted on 05-10-2007 09:54
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Free Agent
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I think Aquarius makes a good point. In the current cycling climate, credibility is almost as important as anything else (even hard evidence).
However, I do have an issue with the credibility argument. This is that the credibility of most of the people involved with cycling (certainly over the past 20 years if not longer) must be inquestion. It may be the case of one or two bad apples spoiling the barrel, or it may be that doping was (or still is) so ingrained that they're all doing it.
I suppose the conclusion I am comming to is that I don't know who to trust any more. Therefore I must assume that someone is innocent until proven guilty.
Hopefully the UCI, WADA, IOC or the teams themselves can impliment some system with real HARD penalties which will remove or minimise the impact of drugs in this great sport. Unfortunately I think that this is still a long way off (far too much infighting and denial)! |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 05-10-2007 10:20
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
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drugsdontwork wrote:
Alright, I'm going to show my naivety/gullibility here but some one has to!
I agree that durgs have permiated the cycling world and also agree that Discovery (as well as every other team in the peleton) at some point MUST have had dopers on their team (Herras, Basso, etc). However to condemn Bruyneel (and hence every team he joins) without conclusive evidence is a dangerous precedent to set.
I accept that Astana (and their previous incarnation) as a team have had more than their fair share of dopers, however they must be given a chance to change. I give to you the example of T-Mobile. As we have discovered lately, they themselves had problems with drugs (Riis, Zabel, Ullrich). However they are now held as a shining light in the fight against doping.
I am willing to be proved wrong, and if Bruyneel is proven to run a systematic doping program then may he burn in the fires of hell for further damaging the sport I love. However, until this time we cannot condemn him with no evidence.
I'm not a Discovery/Bruyneel/Armstrong etc. fan but some balance must be shown in any discussion.
In addition what has already been said, I think it's important to distinguish between T-Mobile and Discovery Channel. T-Mobile has implented an anti doping program. As far as I have been told, it's not as good as CSC's , but they have one and that's what counts.
Discovery Channel has never had an anti doping program, and neither do I think they would ever have liked to make one. Also, I think it's Discovery's / Bruyneel's own fault that people asre suspicious. Signing riders who are deeply involved in Operation Puerto doesn't really up your credibility.
And as said, credibility is very, very important in today's cycling world. Especially if we actually want to see the sport exist in 20 years. |
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| Dan_Grr |
Posted on 05-10-2007 12:01
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Domestique
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Not as good as? Let me think... an anti-doping program put into action by a former doper. This one is hard. |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 05-10-2007 12:35
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Tour de France Champion
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I honestly don't know what to believe about the program. On one hand, I think CSC is one of the most doped teams. On the other hand, I have trust in Rasmus Damsgaard, the external anti doping doctor. |
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