Juan wrote: On the Muur, Cancellara doesn't change of gear, his RPM stays at 96, while the slope is from 12 to 16 %. His body, his hips, his shoulders don't move. Bio-mechanically, our experts think about some sort of external help.
So, basically, he kept on pedalling at the same speed while the slope got steeper (while Boonen couldn't, and slowed down), and this is somehow proof that he's using an engine?
Juan wrote: On the Muur, Cancellara doesn't change of gear, his RPM stays at 96, while the slope is from 12 to 16 %. His body, his hips, his shoulders don't move. Bio-mechanically, our experts think about some sort of external help.
So, basically, he kept on pedalling at the same speed while the slope got steeper (while Boonen couldn't, and slowed down), and this is somehow proof that he's using an engine?
You don't cycle very much do you...
Quite true.
But I have at least some knowledge of physics and mechanics, and sofar, the evidence against Cancellara seems to be rubbish. Of course, I've just seen the youtube video and heard second hand renditions of the other stuff, so there might be something out there...
I'm not saying that it's impossible that he (and/or others) have used an engine, just that the arguments I've seen for it sofar seems to have holes big enough to fly a 747 through.
doddy13 wrote:
You should probably try riding the Muur, the slope starts off steep, but manageable, but as you head to the top it just hurts.
It's very very difficult to keep turning the pedals at the same speed throughout the climb.
Cancellara is the master of pain. He is the best TT rider and therefore can keep his frequence. And he won TdS so he can ride uphill too, for a short time. But maybe all his great results have been done using motors, who knows?
I must say, I think of the whole deal as horrendous, and just pray it's not true.
However, in it's defence as a horrific rumour (currently it's just a rumour, as there is no solid evidence or fact to back up any claims) I do have to admit to some astonishment/disbelief in the gap that Cancellara took out of Boonen on the Muur. Even the helicoptor camera man couldn't find Fabian after the top, so far ahead he had ridden. Astonishing.
I don't get how extra power would help you keep on pedalling at the same speed on a climb with various speeds ?
100 W more or 100 W less should have no influence on that aspect, IMO. Change gears as the slopes increases or decreases and no matter what your RPM should/could remain constant. That works for the race winner as well as the last finisher. More power makes you like a car or a motorcycle, my car is way more powerful than Cancellara, yet it slows down on step climbs, and I may have to use a lower gear to keep the engine RPM more or less constant. 50 more hp wouldn't change anything on that aspect, especially if I'm trying to drive as fast as possible. That'd just make me climb faster overall.
It wouldnt be that hard to hide a button. It could very easily go over the rubber coating of the brake lever body.
Edited by Meatyriding on 09-06-2010 08:43
Aquarius wrote:
I don't get how extra power would help you keep on pedalling at the same speed on a climb with various speeds ?
100 W more or 100 W less should have no influence on that aspect, IMO. Change gears as the slopes increases or decreases and no matter what your RPM should/could remain constant. That works for the race winner as well as the last finisher. More power makes you like a car or a motorcycle, my car is way more powerful than Cancellara, yet it slows down on step climbs, and I may have to use a lower gear to keep the engine RPM more or less constant. 50 more hp wouldn't change anything on that aspect, especially if I'm trying to drive as fast as possible. That'd just make me climb faster overall.
That's right. But, from everything that's said from the French TV video, the most important to me is how Cancellara is that Cancellara doesn't move at all on the climb.
I mean, if you change of gear, your legs have also have to change : you can't stay at the same very rythm during a gear changing. There must a shift in your physical bearing, even for a very little time.
And there's none for Cancellara. (or maybe I didn't watch the images properly).
khris wrote:
Juan wrote: On the Muur, Cancellara doesn't change of gear, his RPM stays at 96, while the slope is from 12 to 16 %. His body, his hips, his shoulders don't move. Bio-mechanically, our experts think about some sort of external help.
So, basically, he kept on pedalling at the same speed while the slope got steeper (while Boonen couldn't, and slowed down), and this is somehow proof that he's using an engine?
You should change that quote : it's not "Juan wrote", it's "French TV said".
I was just translating as properly as possible what was said by the French TV journalist.
Edited by Juan on 09-06-2010 13:08
Even though he did 1400 W or something, he was probably using a very small gear up the Muur.
There's a huge gap between two gears when you're on the smallest rings, but on the biggest ones (those used for climbing), the difference is generally much smaller, which wouldn't create such a big change in terms of RPM.
Now, I don't know which gears he was using, nor saw his SRM power outputs, and neither got to watch any footage from that part of the race, so I'm just guessing on a theoretical point of view.
Why does Cancellaras ride look suspicious to some? Because they are looking for suspicious behavior. I bet you that you could look at any rider anytime accelerating away from any other rider, and find something weird about it, if you look for it. It is virtually imposible to show any kind of motorized bikes, by using tv-footage (except for the ones with cameramen on them of course:lol. You have to catch the cheater red-handed, which the UCI is now working on methods to do.
No one "reads" the sun, at best we all get to page 3, get stuck looking at breasts and then close the page once we get bored/remember we're trying to "read" the sun.
No one "reads" the sun, at best we all get to page 3, get stuck looking at breasts and then close the page once we get bored/remember we're trying to "read" the sun.
Some people do actually read it, and believe it.
There's no point slapping a schleck - Sean Kelly on "Who needs a slap"
Well... I like Cancellara as the great champion he is, and I ignore the jokes my friends tell me daily about him and doping in general, because as I always think, if there's no proof, there's no guilty.
But this morning, I've seen some kind of investigation made by Jacky Durand on Eurosport site, and I must admit it's disturbing...
For those who understand the french: https://www.eurosport.fr/les-commentat...l#comments
I'm sorry I don't have much time to develop (another exam tomorrow...) but if someone can do it for non french-speakers, it would be nice.
Edited by Lorkan on 14-06-2010 09:44
No one "reads" the sun, at best we all get to page 3, get stuck looking at breasts and then close the page once we get bored/remember we're trying to "read" the sun.
Some people do actually read it, and believe it.
Just for clarification purposes, I typed "Mechanical Doping" into google, clicked on the news tab, and found the Sun article. I can categorically state that I have never tried to "read" the Sun, I get all of my hard news from more hard-hitting journals such as The Beano, The Dandy and 2000AD!
I read the article on eurosport yesterday. I admit it's troubling. You can find the mentioned video down the link posted two messages above.
Here's the translation anyway :
(And sorry for lousy grammar or such things. )
Cancellara didn't tell everything !
In exclusivity, we're revealing what the Swiss champion didn't bother explaining during his two press conferences during which he (briefly) spoke of the rumours which he claims to be the victim of. Cancellara is supected to have used a bike with an electrical assistance during the Flemish Classics. So let's put it straight, we didn't mean to charge him. Though, Jacky Durand unveils the surprising bike changes by Cancellara during the race.
This video will demonstrate, through proofs, that during RVV, Fabian Cancellara changed his bike twice before making his decisive attack in the Molenberg. All of that in less than 12 km !
It will also demonstrate that those bike changes had been perfectly planned, unlike what Saxo Bank team tried to suggest to Eurovision cameras, who were shouting the Swiss champion at that very moment.
An unexpected event allowed us to follow the trail of this incredible story episodes, it's of course the mechanical incident whose his team mate Matti Breschel was victim of.
Let's now detail the two changes Cancellara proceeded to :
The first one was done at every tele spectator sight, at the entrance of Mater, after more than 200 km of racing. Checking the images and the mechanics attitude who's inspecting the Swissman's bike from his ca, it suggests a brakes problem. The Saxo Bank car stops for the change. The mechanics, Roger Theel, takes the reserve bike down the car and pushes Cancellara to help him ride again.
At that moment, we have the clear feeling that the first bike change wasn't planned at all.
However, leaving his bike to the mechanics, the Swiss man already knew he would get his machine back very quickly, because he doesn't even bother bringing his bottle, which all riders usually do.
Observing the images from Matti Breschel's bike disastrous repairing, a few moments later (3 km further actually), we can notice that Breschel, whilst overtaking his car, is looking for the mechanics inside. Nobody steps down the back of the car for the simple and good reason that the mechanics is not into the car ! We can also notice that one bike is missing on the right side of the roof rack, straight in line which Cancellara's second reserve bike. It [the missing bike] is precisely the bike which the Swiss man got rid off a few moments prior. The mechanics kept it during the repairing at the entrance of Mater.
The German, Roger Theel, obviously crossed the route (a few hundreds of metres) to reach, on the bike, the second assistance zone, where he awaits Cancellara to give him back his original bike. The evidence suggesting it's the very same bike is the frame plate [with the riders' number] beneath the sattle. The repairing on Mater's heights down Saint Martin, Mater's church, less than 5 km after the first incident, is a model of efficiency through speed. It's obvious, from the way the bike change takes place, that both men had agreed on the repairing place.
That change done, the mechanics then waits for his car to set the reserve bike on the roof rack again and sit again at the back of the car. On the TV broadcasting, he can actually be noticed on the back seat during the last part of the race.
Thus we have to face facts. Within a distance of 12 km (between 57 and 45 km to go) Cancellara changed his bike twice and got rid of all his opponents in the Mollenberg, except for Boonen, who would manage to follow him till the Muur of Grammont.
Those facts lead to several questions :
1) What king of problem did Cancellara's bike suffer from to explain that first change ? Which tools did the mechanics carry to repair the bike whist riding to the second change place ?
2) Admitting the first change wasn't planned, as Saxo Bank's crew suggests, how can it be explained, that it happened at the very place where the mechanics could cross the route on the bike to go to a place the race would reach a few moments later. All of that in less than 8 minutes. Hadn't it been planned, it would have requested that, once the mechanic problem was identified, a suitable place would be found for both changes, get all the necessary tools for the bike fixing to repaid the bike outside the car (and the mechanics stepped down the car with empty hands !) and tell the rider about it...
3) If the first bike change was indeed planned, then why all that soap opera with the so-called faulty brakes, and for which reason ? Changing a bike for a more suitable tubeless tyres pressure could have been a credible hypothesis had Cancellara not waited for 200 km to be past to proceed to the change.
Bjarne Riis said last Friday, during a press conference, that he had the feeling journalists were not doing their work properly in this affair. As such, we would now like Saxo Bank's manager to answer those questions clearly.
wait so Cancelarra changed bikes a second time after going solo with Boonen, that would have been on the Camera, no doubt, there was a motorcycle the whole time.
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182]Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Ok, now I'm getting suspicious too. The original YouTube video wasn't real proof of mechanical doping, but this is disturbing.
Edited by JDC on 14-06-2010 16:47
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