|
Vino has tested positive
|
| Smoothie |
Posted on 24-07-2007 17:22
|
Team Leader
Posts: 6622
Joined: 04-02-2007
PCM$: 300.00
|
SonDaan wrote:
How can they trace it? Wasn't it untraceable?
Obviously not! |
| |
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 20:56
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| issoisso |
Posted on 24-07-2007 17:23
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
SonDaan wrote:
How can they trace it? Wasn't it untraceable?
it's untraceable if it's your own blood that is put back in. putting in blood of another is idiotic and pretty much impossible NOT to detect. which is what makes this extremely weird. I don't think most people have grasped yet how unlikely and weird this seems...  |
| |
|
|
| Addy291 |
Posted on 24-07-2007 17:25
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8915
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
issoisso wrote:
it's untraceable if it's your own blood that is put back in. putting in blood of another is idiotic and pretty much impossible NOT to detect. which is what makes this extremely weird. I don't think most people have grasped yet how unlikely and weird this seems...
if it helps i haven't
seriously though i dont know what to think, if you were doping and trying to cover it up, then surley you would do something smarter than this
you're right isso... this is weird
YORKSHIRE BORN, YORKSHIRE BRED... |
| |
|
|
| issoisso |
Posted on 24-07-2007 17:26
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Addy291 wrote:
issoisso wrote:
it's untraceable if it's your own blood that is put back in. putting in blood of another is idiotic and pretty much impossible NOT to detect. which is what makes this extremely weird. I don't think most people have grasped yet how unlikely and weird this seems...
if it helps i haven't
seriously though i dont know what to think, if you were doping and trying to cover it up, then surley you would do something smarter than this
you're right isso... this is weird
the Landis situation all over again... |
| |
|
|
| Phanekim |
Posted on 24-07-2007 17:34
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 361
Joined: 05-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
I'm a Landis fan, but I've read the scientific crap on all these doping tests. Its legit. Its as simple as a DNA fingerprint. Its undeniable. of course you can attack the protocol and whatever. Thats why they take two samples.
Everyone knows that Vino was highly likely doping. Taking into account Jasscke's comments and his up and down performances, its not hard to see why. Boo.
They'll soon get Contador and Rasmussen as well. |
| |
|
|
| roadie |
Posted on 24-07-2007 17:37
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 372
Joined: 22-04-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Well from many articles I have read about raw, fresh riders who have gone to Europe and tried their hand at being a Pro, many have come back to tell stories of doping rings, artificial stimulants , human growth hormones, etc etc. They have all at one time or another been asked to participate in this process. Of course many have refused and as a result ,had contracts revoked or shortened. It just seems although the sport is doing its best to improve its reputation, yet another bombshell about a high profile rider who has used suspect means to improve his performance. I would suggest that even the greats Hinault, Merckx, Armstrong would've struggled to get back on the bike after such a earth shattering fall a few days ago. But what's this, from out of the blue, Vinokourov blitz's an ITT with 60 + stitches in his knees. How else could he have done it?? Sure guts does account for proportionate performance, but to ride away from most of the contenders????
I say lets just open up the playing field. It's obvious that riders are pushed to improve their performances,by management and sponsors. Lets just have an openly drugged European Peleton, then nobody can say "its a shock" or that was a surprise. They should introduce a UCI points system for teams who can come up with the best performance enhancer. Then PCM07 could be the most accurate game on the market. Honestly, Ive not seen riders who can attack 4 times in 10 kms, have a fall and still manage to win a stage.... |
| |
|
|
| awn12 |
Posted on 24-07-2007 17:39
|
Amateur
Posts: 4
Joined: 06-07-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Phanekim wrote:
I'm a Landis fan, but I've read the scientific crap on all these doping tests. Its legit. Its as simple as a DNA fingerprint. Its undeniable. of course you can attack the protocol and whatever. Thats why they take two samples.
Everyone knows that Vino was highly likely doping. Taking into account Jasscke's comments and his up and down performances, its not hard to see why. Boo.
They'll soon get Contador and Rasmussen as well.
Maybe Rasmussen and Contador is clean, maybe they are doped.
But before anything has been proven, they are innocent. Both are known to be training in the high mountains, and maybe that's why thw two are ridding so well in the moutains.
Until we have prove they are infact doped, I claim they are clean.
It's a witchhunt particulary against Rasmussen, he is already marked as a doped man from the press and public, but maybe he's clean so give the man a break. |
| |
|
|
| Phanekim |
Posted on 24-07-2007 17:43
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 361
Joined: 05-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
thing is hav eyou ever noticed that when Jorg came out with his allegations and with other riders like Manzano...everything has been downright true? Even the synthetic blood accused to have been tried to smuggled across was one of the devices described by Manzano.
I will believe the honest witnesses. And apparently Rasmussen has a history of doping. Period. Blood doping is vastly effective....more so than testosterone but even still...they should be taken very seriously.
They are innocent till proven guilty but when people are coming out of the woodwork with good specific testimoniies against you, you are in deep crap.
This makes you also wonder what landis knows about armstrong. |
| |
|
|
| issoisso |
Posted on 24-07-2007 17:45
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
awn12 wrote:
Phanekim wrote:
I'm a Landis fan, but I've read the scientific crap on all these doping tests. Its legit. Its as simple as a DNA fingerprint. Its undeniable. of course you can attack the protocol and whatever. Thats why they take two samples.
Everyone knows that Vino was highly likely doping. Taking into account Jasscke's comments and his up and down performances, its not hard to see why. Boo.
They'll soon get Contador and Rasmussen as well.
Maybe Rasmussen and Contador is clean, maybe they are doped.
But before anything has been proven, they are innocent. Both are known to be training in the high mountains, and maybe that's why thw two are ridding so well in the moutains.
Until we have prove they are infact doped, I claim they are clean.
It's a witchhunt particulary against Rasmussen, he is already marked as a doped man from the press and public, but maybe he's clean so give the man a break.
I have little doubt that they are doped, and I won't stop that since it is my opinion. however, actually penalising them is what I am firmly against.
they so far deserve no penalty since they are judged to have done no wrong.
HOWEVER, I am entitled to an opinion, and as such I will stand that there is a miniscule chance that Contador is not doped. as for Rasmussen, I have my doubts.
Phanekim wrote:
thing is hav eyou ever noticed that when Jorg came out with his allegations and with other riders like Manzano...everything has been downright true? Even the synthetic blood accused to have been tried to smuggled across was one of the devices described by Manzano.
I will believe the honest witnesses. And apparently Rasmussen has a history of doping. Period. Blood doping is vastly effective....more so than testosterone but even still...they should be taken very seriously.
They are innocent till proven guilty but when people are coming out of the woodwork with good specific testimoniies against you, you are in deep crap.
This makes you also wonder what landis knows about armstrong.
if that is your stance on Manzano (it's also mine, by the way), then many others must be included. most of all Valverde, the only rider that Manzano has named so far.
Edited by issoisso on 24-07-2007 17:47
|
| |
|
|
| Phanekim |
Posted on 24-07-2007 17:48
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 361
Joined: 05-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
exactly isso, we seem to agree on everything. You can't penalize anyone without proof, but there is enough rumors around them to know that they aren't clean.
I feel bad for Levi or Evans who actually look human unlike Contador or Rasmussen. |
| |
|
|
| issoisso |
Posted on 24-07-2007 17:51
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Phanekim wrote:
exactly isso, we seem to agree on everything. You can't penalize anyone without proof, but there is enough rumors around them to know that they aren't clean.
I feel bad for Levi or Evans who actually look human unlike Contador or Rasmussen.
trust me when I say that I couldn't care less about them being doped or not just by itself.
it's the fact that others work their asses off at what is their livelihood, only to come second or third because of illegal practices. that incenses me to no end! |
| |
|
|
| Phanekim |
Posted on 24-07-2007 17:54
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 361
Joined: 05-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
I mean while watching the last stage. I mean seriously how many digs did Contador put in? like 4-5 in 10km? wtf? I mean seriously...wtf?
As far as Valverde goes, I dont know, he's looked quite human in the vuelta and this year's tdf. If there's a similarity i'd put him in the Cunego group. Him and Cunego might have doped but have now stopped cause the sport is cleaning up forcing them not to cheat. Thats just my gut feeling.
PS, isso, it incenses me to no end as well. What is worse with Vino is that there was so much scrutiny going into this TDF with him and HE STILL CHOSE to dope. And in doing so he completely obliterated the field in the time trial.
Which makes you wonder about rasmussen. A guy who lost like 6 minutes in a time trial to finish on the podium a few years ago. Makes you really say, "hrmmm...."
Edited by Phanekim on 24-07-2007 17:55
|
| |
|
|
| Addy291 |
Posted on 24-07-2007 17:54
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8915
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
To be honest i will now put all my faith in Contador and say he is definatley not doped.
i really don't think he is doped, i feel he is a young punchy cyclist who is at the moment too punchy for some of the old climbers in the pack.
whereas Rasmussen, i didn't doubt him until that TT where he finished 11th, i doubt in a field of 12 riders he would ever finish 11th,
i'm not concerned by his performance in the mountains as i feel he is the 2nd best climber in the ProTour, better by Piepoli. The only worry i have is his ability to hold on as well as he is to the favourites, as we are more normally seeing him going solo over the mountains.
But i also think Rasmussen may be clean
YORKSHIRE BORN, YORKSHIRE BRED... |
| |
|
|
| SonDaan |
Posted on 24-07-2007 17:56
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 272
Joined: 17-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
How did they ever traced it...? |
| |
|
|
| Addy291 |
Posted on 24-07-2007 17:57
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8915
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
Phanekim wrote:
As far as Valverde goes, I dont know, he's looked quite human in the vuelta and this year's tdf. If there's a similarity i'd put him in the Cunego group. Him and Cunego might have doped but have now stopped cause the sport is cleaning up forcing them not to cheat. Thats just my gut feeling.
i also feel this
Valverde and Cunego were awesome, unstopable last year but this year look, extremely average and i belive the same as you, that they may have doped last year, but stopped this year as they feel they have done wrong.
obviously i'm not condoning anyone who dopes but if they did, then this is at least showing that people are realising it is bad and trying to clean up the sport
(that was extremly hard to say, as i hate Valverde )
Edited by Addy291 on 24-07-2007 17:58
YORKSHIRE BORN, YORKSHIRE BRED... |
| |
|
|
| Phanekim |
Posted on 24-07-2007 17:58
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 361
Joined: 05-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Addy291 wrote:
To be honest i will now put all my faith in Contador and say he is definatley not doped.
i really don't think he is doped, i feel he is a young punchy cyclist who is at the moment too punchy for some of the old climbers in the pack.
whereas Rasmussen, i didn't doubt him until that TT where he finished 11th, i doubt in a field of 12 riders he would ever finish 11th,
i'm not concerned by his performance in the mountains as i feel he is the 2nd best climber in the ProTour, better by Piepoli. The only worry i have is his ability to hold on as well as he is to the favourites, as we are more normally seeing him going solo over the mountains.
But i also think Rasmussen may be clean
too bad piepoli is under suspicion for...gasp...doping. |
| |
|
|
| SonDaan |
Posted on 24-07-2007 17:59
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 272
Joined: 17-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
but...Cunego didn't do incridible things last year, did he? |
| |
|
|
| Phanekim |
Posted on 24-07-2007 17:59
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 361
Joined: 05-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
SonDaan wrote:
How did they ever traced it...?
he basically had another person's blood in his system. Plain simple DNA.
SonDaan wrote:
but...Cunego didn't do incridible things last year, did he?
Both Valverde and Cunego did incredible things in 2004.
Edited by Phanekim on 24-07-2007 18:00
|
| |
|
|
| Addy291 |
Posted on 24-07-2007 18:00
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8915
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
Phanekim wrote:
Addy291 wrote:
To be honest i will now put all my faith in Contador and say he is definatley not doped.
i really don't think he is doped, i feel he is a young punchy cyclist who is at the moment too punchy for some of the old climbers in the pack.
whereas Rasmussen, i didn't doubt him until that TT where he finished 11th, i doubt in a field of 12 riders he would ever finish 11th,
i'm not concerned by his performance in the mountains as i feel he is the 2nd best climber in the ProTour, better by Piepoli. The only worry i have is his ability to hold on as well as he is to the favourites, as we are more normally seeing him going solo over the mountains.
But i also think Rasmussen may be clean
too bad piepoli is under suspicion for...gasp...doping.
i know he is under suspicion but as i have said with Contador, i put all my faith in him by saying, he is THIS YEAR 100% clean
YORKSHIRE BORN, YORKSHIRE BRED... |
| |
|
|
| Addy291 |
Posted on 24-07-2007 18:01
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8915
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
SonDaan wrote:
but...Cunego didn't do incridible things last year, did he?
ok, sorry i meant last year, the year before and the year before that
2004
Giro d'Italia (1st overall; stage 2, 7, 16 and 18 wins)
Giro di Lombardia
Giro del Trentino (overall; stage 1 and 2 wins)
Giro dell'Appennino
GP Industria & Artigianato
2 Giorni Marchigiana / Gp Fred Mengoni
GP Nobili Rubinetterie / Borgomanero
2005
Tour de Romandie (stage 3 win)
GP Nobili Rubinetterie
Trofeo Melinda
Japan Cup
2006
Tour de France (Best Young Rider classification)
Giro del Trentino (overall and stage 2 win)
Settimana Ciclistica Internazionale "Coppi e Bartali" (overall and stage 3 win)
Giro d'Oro
GP Industria & Artigianato
YORKSHIRE BORN, YORKSHIRE BRED... |
| |
|
