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24-07-2017 15:41
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Ardennes classics 2017
Riis123
Dylan Teuns: "When you're racing against a great favorite like Valverde, you must wait 'til he make his move"

Yep, don't do anything till the last 200 metres when Valverde will attack as usual and distance everyone more easily year by year as usual!

In the past riders like Antón, Evans, Contador etc. attacked on Huy and made it an extremely hard climb. I think this way Valverde would be in more problems. Now he gets to control the pace on Huy up until his usual spot and then make the other riders look like bad juniors when he is making his usual move.
ALEJANDRO, GET WELL SOON
 
TheManxMissile
I think we should just accept that Fleche won't be an interesting until the finish is changed up to prevent the 200m sprint. Luckily Amstel and LBL can now provide some decent Ardennes racing instead and we should focus on those good positive races rather than the expected bore of Wallonne.
i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag175/themanxmissile/cobie-halved_zps6rvruaet.jpgi1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag175/themanxmissile/avril-half_zpswnmxcwwu.jpgi1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag175/themanxmissile/ariane-half_zpsm07x4fue.jpgi1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag175/themanxmissile/alison-half_zpshdblr8cp.jpgi1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag175/themanxmissile/tayler3-half_zpsozd35w2a.jpg
 
Avin Wargunnson
But ifind it interesting...for its difference. There are not many races like that andit makes it unique, you dont have to expect long range epic solos in every race of the calendar. Smile

Valverde still can have bad day or his chain can slip or anything. Still bigger chance of that happening than some senseless long range attack or whatever you are guys calling for. Teams do what they realistically can...and that is not much when it comes to Valverde and FW. Wink
Please insert signature *HERE*
 
titleist82
TheManxMissile wrote:
titleist82 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
titleist82 wrote:
The point is: no team races like that against eg. Sagan, or a similar clear favourite like Valverde was yesterday.

A decent mid-range attack was there, after the last cote Movistars disappeared from the front of the pack, why the hell cruise Valverde to Huy that way?

Lotto and Sky had many options there (Wellens, Vanendert, Rosa, Henao, Kwiato) but tried nothing. I understand more Orica as they only had Albasini and they tried their luck with him in a sprint finish.

Please point me to all those editions, where any attacks before the Huy made sense in Fleche Wallone.


None.

Can you similarly point out any recent edition where cruising Valverde to the foot of the Mur lead to a different result than Valverde raising his arms over the line?

As long as they don't want to race for second place, they should have tried something different, just saying.


2013, which is a lot more recent than a long range attack working


When Betancour went full gas at the foot of the climb, forcing clear race favourite and world champion Gilbert to chase him hard and eventually burn himself out, allowing a third-tier rider like Moreno to grab the win?

Thanks for proving my point.
 
TheManxMissile
Or Valverde could animate the race himself. We know he's capable of the long range monster rider. Do what van der Breggen did and just crush the race as the favorite!
i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag175/themanxmissile/cobie-halved_zps6rvruaet.jpgi1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag175/themanxmissile/avril-half_zpswnmxcwwu.jpgi1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag175/themanxmissile/ariane-half_zpsm07x4fue.jpgi1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag175/themanxmissile/alison-half_zpshdblr8cp.jpgi1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag175/themanxmissile/tayler3-half_zpsozd35w2a.jpg
 
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TheManxMissile
titleist82 wrote:
Can you similarly point out any recent edition where cruising Valverde to the foot of the Mur lead to a different result than Valverde raising his arms over the line?

As long as they don't want to race for second place, they should have tried something different, just saying.


2013, which is a lot more recent than a long range attack working[/quote]

When Betancour went full gas at the foot of the climb, forcing clear race favourite and world champion Gilbert to chase him hard and eventually burn himself out, allowing a third-tier rider like Moreno to grab the win?

Thanks for proving my point.[/quote]
i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag175/themanxmissile/cobie-halved_zps6rvruaet.jpgi1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag175/themanxmissile/avril-half_zpswnmxcwwu.jpgi1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag175/themanxmissile/ariane-half_zpsm07x4fue.jpgi1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag175/themanxmissile/alison-half_zpshdblr8cp.jpgi1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag175/themanxmissile/tayler3-half_zpsozd35w2a.jpg
 
titleist82
TheManxMissile wrote:
titleist82 wrote:
Can you similarly point out any recent edition where cruising Valverde to the foot of the Mur lead to a different result than Valverde raising his arms over the line?

As long as they don't want to race for second place, they should have tried something different, just saying.


2013, which is a lot more recent than a long range attack working


When Betancour went full gas at the foot of the climb, forcing clear race favourite and world champion Gilbert to chase him hard and eventually burn himself out, allowing a third-tier rider like Moreno to grab the win?

Thanks for proving my point.


Yet someone tried something different, and this forced race favourite to work well ahead of the 200m mark.

That's my point. I'm not expecting a midrange or a 1km attack to necessarly be a winning move, but it can turn plans upside down.

And when the odds are clearly against you, that's something you should be eager to try.
 
TheManxMissile
You didn't ask when the last time someone tried something different, which is a different question Pfft
i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag175/themanxmissile/cobie-halved_zps6rvruaet.jpgi1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag175/themanxmissile/avril-half_zpswnmxcwwu.jpgi1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag175/themanxmissile/ariane-half_zpsm07x4fue.jpgi1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag175/themanxmissile/alison-half_zpshdblr8cp.jpgi1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag175/themanxmissile/tayler3-half_zpsozd35w2a.jpg
 
titleist82
TheManxMissile wrote:
You didn't ask when the last time someone tried something different, which is a different question Pfft


don't be tedious Grin
 
Avin Wargunnson
titleist82 wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
titleist82 wrote:
Can you similarly point out any recent edition where cruising Valverde to the foot of the Mur lead to a different result than Valverde raising his arms over the line?

As long as they don't want to race for second place, they should have tried something different, just saying.


2013, which is a lot more recent than a long range attack working


When Betancour went full gas at the foot of the climb, forcing clear race favourite and world champion Gilbert to chase him hard and eventually burn himself out, allowing a third-tier rider like Moreno to grab the win?

Thanks for proving my point.


Yet someone tried something different, and this forced race favourite to work well ahead of the 200m mark.

That's my point. I'm not expecting a midrange or a 1km attack to necessarly be a winning move, but it can turn plans upside down.

And when the odds are clearly against you, that's something you should be eager to try.


So the rider A from Team A will make a strong move (for example at the foot of the Huy) and will turn the plans of team M (movistar) upside down. That is nice, but what sense does it make for rider A from Team A, when it will lead to better situation for rider X (x is not A, nor M) from team X? He will run out of gas soon, destroy (probably) plans of Movistar, but still gets nothing from it for his team.
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Riis123
Thats why you play Kwiatkowski out before the last 200 metres whether that being an attack on the bottom of Huy, on Cherave or where ever he realistically can't contest Valverde and safe Henao, for example. Smile
ALEJANDRO, GET WELL SOON
 
titleist82
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
titleist82 wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
titleist82 wrote:
Can you similarly point out any recent edition where cruising Valverde to the foot of the Mur lead to a different result than Valverde raising his arms over the line?

As long as they don't want to race for second place, they should have tried something different, just saying.


2013, which is a lot more recent than a long range attack working


When Betancour went full gas at the foot of the climb, forcing clear race favourite and world champion Gilbert to chase him hard and eventually burn himself out, allowing a third-tier rider like Moreno to grab the win?

Thanks for proving my point.


Yet someone tried something different, and this forced race favourite to work well ahead of the 200m mark.

That's my point. I'm not expecting a midrange or a 1km attack to necessarly be a winning move, but it can turn plans upside down.

And when the odds are clearly against you, that's something you should be eager to try.


So the rider A from Team A will make a strong move (for example at the foot of the Huy) and will turn the plans of team M (movistar) upside down. That is nice, but what sense does it make for rider A from Team A, when it will lead to better situation for rider X (x is not A, nor M) from team X? He will run out of gas soon, destroy (probably) plans of Movistar, but still gets nothing from it for his team.


Well, this way rider A still stands a mild chance of winning, against none. Several times in cycling we saw the favourite refusing to play the cat and mouse game, or esitating a bit and leaving the victory to an underdog.

Plus there where teams with more than one "fleche" in their quiver. E.g. Sky had Rosa and Kwiato who might have set a credible attack, with Henao possibly sitting on Valverde's wheel.

It's of course very easy to speak ex-post and from behind a screen, but the outcome of a 200m sprint was so clear to everyone that I really do not understand why no one tried something different.

And i don't see Sky settling for a podium finish (which they didn't even get btw) after all the wins they got in recent years!
 
Ollfardh
Just a list I compiled about people who won a classic 5x or more as record.

San Remo - Eddy Merckx - 7

Liege - Eddy Merckx - 5
Lombardia - Fausto Coppi - 5
E3 - Tom Boonen - 5
Fleche - Alejandro Valverde - 5
Amstel Gold Race - Jan Raas - 5


He's there with the best..
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Frederiek Nolf, Dimitri De Fauw, Wouter Weylandt, Rob Goris, Kristof Goddaert, Igor Decraene, Antoine Demoitié, Daan Myngheer. The legendary Michele Scarponi. The list is getting too long..
 
Guido Mukk
wondering here. if one day Alaphilippe will be able to beat Valverde. Do we after that still demanding changes, at that classic finish?

Be realistic we can not have every race look like Vlaanderen and we wont get epic solo rides at every race.
But two 3rd category climb before every tour sprint finish is your solution to get "real" stage winners?
 
Choklets
What's the hype with Gaudu? Was he that FDJ guy that came to the front flailing like mad, to set a high pace for the FDJ leader that was nowhere to be seen?
Found that a strange move. Wink
 
Riis123
Choklets wrote:
What's the hype with Gaudu? Was he that FDJ guy that came to the front flailing like mad, to set a high pace for the FDJ leader that was nowhere to be seen?
Found that a strange move. Wink

That's what is called an attack, a rare thing in F-W, so I understand why thats hard to believe.
ALEJANDRO, GET WELL SOON
 
valverde321
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
But ifind it interesting...for its difference. There are not many races like that andit makes it unique, you dont have to expect long range epic solos in every race of the calendar. Smile

Valverde still can have bad day or his chain can slip or anything. Still bigger chance of that happening than some senseless long range attack or whatever you are guys calling for. Teams do what they realistically can...and that is not much when it comes to Valverde and FW. Wink


I can agree with this. Maybe not fully but the last km was pretty good for me. All the favourites sprinting it out on a hill is pretty exciting. Plus Jungels had a decent attack before being caught with 400m left. I only watched the last 10km so maybe thats why Im not complaining tho.


Also, is Albasini not riding LBL? Haven't seen him mentioned as a favourite, but he seems to be in great form.
 
Avin Wargunnson
Choklets wrote:
What's the hype with Gaudu? Was he that FDJ guy that came to the front flailing like mad, to set a high pace for the FDJ leader that was nowhere to be seen?
Found that a strange move. Wink

He is young, showed himself and we are on PCM Daily = he is hyped. Grin
Please insert signature *HERE*
 
Riis123
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Choklets wrote:
What's the hype with Gaudu? Was he that FDJ guy that came to the front flailing like mad, to set a high pace for the FDJ leader that was nowhere to be seen?
Found that a strange move. Wink

He is young, showed himself and we are on PCM Daily = he is hyped. Grin

Hmm, maybe because he is insanely talented (look at Catalunya) and no neo pros really does what he does....
ALEJANDRO, GET WELL SOON
 
TheManxMissile
Riis123 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Choklets wrote:
What's the hype with Gaudu? Was he that FDJ guy that came to the front flailing like mad, to set a high pace for the FDJ leader that was nowhere to be seen?
Found that a strange move. Wink

He is young, showed himself and we are on PCM Daily = he is hyped. Grin

Hmm, maybe because he is insanely talented (look at Catalunya) and no neo pros really does what he does....


Well that's just a wrong statement "no neo-pros really does what he does". I'll just say to go and look at other rider neo-pro seasons, like Alaphillippe, Sagan, Cavendish, Gesink, Horner and many many others.
i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag175/themanxmissile/cobie-halved_zps6rvruaet.jpgi1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag175/themanxmissile/avril-half_zpswnmxcwwu.jpgi1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag175/themanxmissile/ariane-half_zpsm07x4fue.jpgi1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag175/themanxmissile/alison-half_zpshdblr8cp.jpgi1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag175/themanxmissile/tayler3-half_zpsozd35w2a.jpg
 
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