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2012 DB: Stat Discussions
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| RHW |
Posted on 02-02-2012 22:56
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Rojas sprint stat is a little too high, he is a top 5 man at the Tour but doesn't win many. I'd be wary of overrating Kittel - he hasn't beaten great opposition in the races he won last year - not many top sprinters rode Dunkerque or Poland. |
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| RHW |
Posted on 02-02-2012 22:56
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fickman wrote:
Between 2011 and this year this are the results from these 3:
Marcel Kittel:
Won: 13 Stages 4 Races
Podiums: 5
You just have to look at the results.
As Cav would say, shit small races. |
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| kumazan |
Posted on 02-02-2012 22:56
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issoisso wrote:
EDIT: To put it into perspective, after his mid-season break last year, Kittel did 10 sprints. He lost that weird chaotic sprint that Sutton won at the Vuelta that wasn't really a sprint, and won EVERY. SINGLE. OTHER.
Yeah, but he was beating the Sagans and Galimzyanovs of this world, not the top elite sprinters. That's not to say he isn't an elite sprinter, because he damn sure is, but just looking at the amount of wins is misleading.
I haven't had much time to play with the DB, but after a quick look it'd seem right to improve Kittel's stats to Petacchi's level, as well as putting Rojas down to 78/79.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 02-02-2012 22:58
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kumazan wrote:
issoisso wrote:
EDIT: To put it into perspective, after his mid-season break last year, Kittel did 10 sprints. He lost that weird chaotic sprint that Sutton won at the Vuelta that wasn't really a sprint, and won EVERY. SINGLE. OTHER.
Yeah, but he was beating the Sagans and Galimzyanovs of this world, not the top elite sprinters. That's not to say he isn't an elite sprinter, because he damn sure is, but just looking at the amount of wins is misleading.
I haven't had much time to play with the DB, but after a quick look it'd seem right to improve Kittel's stats to Petacchi's level, as well as putting Rojas down to 78/79.
It's not about the amount of wins. It's about not losing any.
If you want to say 'the things science doesn't understand...that's god's hand', then - because the list of things science can't explain and that religious people attribute to god is constantly getting smaller and smaller - you've just defined your own god as a continuously receding pocket of ignorance.
That's about the most offensive thing you could possibly say about a religion. Yet people only ever claim it about their own religion. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 03-02-2012 08:06
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kumazan wrote:
issoisso wrote:
EDIT: To put it into perspective, after his mid-season break last year, Kittel did 10 sprints. He lost that weird chaotic sprint that Sutton won at the Vuelta that wasn't really a sprint, and won EVERY. SINGLE. OTHER.
Yeah, but he was beating the Sagans and Galimzyanovs of this world, not the top elite sprinters. That's not to say he isn't an elite sprinter, because he damn sure is, but just looking at the amount of wins is misleading.
I haven't had much time to play with the DB, but after a quick look it'd seem right to improve Kittel's stats to Petacchi's level, as well as putting Rojas down to 78/79.
Do we live in the same world? Because on mine i saw Sagan winning three stages at Vuelta and beating Bennati,Petacchi and Kittel that times. Kittel won just one sprint there and Sagan was right there behing him 
Of course Kittel is great sprinter, but that is Sagan too and he is 77/77 in database if i remember right:
I would make that:
Petacchi 80/79
Kittel 79/79
Rojas 78/79
Sagan 78/79
And i understand that nobody wants a Sagan monster in the game, as with bigger stats he would have won every sprint in the hilly stage, but the reality is that he is that good 
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 03-02-2012 08:09
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 03-02-2012 08:08
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issoisso wrote:
kumazan wrote:
issoisso wrote:
EDIT: To put it into perspective, after his mid-season break last year, Kittel did 10 sprints. He lost that weird chaotic sprint that Sutton won at the Vuelta that wasn't really a sprint, and won EVERY. SINGLE. OTHER.
Yeah, but he was beating the Sagans and Galimzyanovs of this world, not the top elite sprinters. That's not to say he isn't an elite sprinter, because he damn sure is, but just looking at the amount of wins is misleading.
I haven't had much time to play with the DB, but after a quick look it'd seem right to improve Kittel's stats to Petacchi's level, as well as putting Rojas down to 78/79.
It's not about the amount of wins. It's about not losing any.
I think it is always about winning in sports. It is hard for him to loose a sprint when he contests not even a half of them, he do almost only with perfect leadout...
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| gelu |
Posted on 03-02-2012 10:45
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Do we live in the same world? Because on mine i saw Sagan winning three stages at Vuelta and beating Bennati,Petacchi and Kittel that times. Kittel won just one sprint there and Sagan was right there behing him
Of course Kittel is great sprinter, but that is Sagan too and he is 77/77 in database if i remember right:
I would make that:
Petacchi 80/79
Kittel 79/79
Rojas 78/79
Sagan 78/79
And i understand that nobody wants a Sagan monster in the game, as with bigger stats he would have won every sprint in the hilly stage, but the reality is that he is that good
Sagan have never beaten Kittel on flat stage. He is about 3 points slower. Sagan had big difficulties with hot weather on Vuelta- he could win 2 or 3 more stages with better weather. And realize that this guy is pretty good on cobbles also. This all in 22 years. He can win all 7 spring classics one day.
Edited by gelu on 03-02-2012 10:45 |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 03-02-2012 11:04
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gelu wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Do we live in the same world? Because on mine i saw Sagan winning three stages at Vuelta and beating Bennati,Petacchi and Kittel that times. Kittel won just one sprint there and Sagan was right there behing him
Of course Kittel is great sprinter, but that is Sagan too and he is 77/77 in database if i remember right:
I would make that:
Petacchi 80/79
Kittel 79/79
Rojas 78/79
Sagan 78/79
And i understand that nobody wants a Sagan monster in the game, as with bigger stats he would have won every sprint in the hilly stage, but the reality is that he is that good
Sagan have never beaten Kittel on flat stage. He is about 3 points slower. Sagan had big difficulties with hot weather on Vuelta- he could win 2 or 3 more stages with better weather. And realize that this guy is pretty good on cobbles also. This all in 22 years. He can win all 7 spring classics one day.
Of course he did, not a shoulder to shoulder, but Kittel was droped in the last kilometre in two stages. Still when he is not pedaling in last 500 metres, it does not mean he is not beaten in a sprint...
But i agree that Kittel is little bit faster in a flat sprint (also he has better lead-out every time), i am looking forward to the future green jersey battles of these two, but Sagan will pawn him
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 03-02-2012 15:42
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Of course he did, not a shoulder to shoulder, but Kittel was droped in the last kilometre in two stages. Still when he is not pedaling in last 500 metres, it does not mean he is not beaten in a sprint...
We're discussing the sprint stat, which goes for how fast a rider can sprint. If Kittel didn't sprint in a stage, you can't take out a sprint point for that. Maybe it calls for a small reduction in flat, or resistance, or whatever would make him get tired in the end and not sprint, but not in the sprint stat.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 03-02-2012 16:03
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lluuiiggii wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Of course he did, not a shoulder to shoulder, but Kittel was droped in the last kilometre in two stages. Still when he is not pedaling in last 500 metres, it does not mean he is not beaten in a sprint...
We're discussing the sprint stat, which goes for how fast a rider can sprint. If Kittel didn't sprint in a stage, you can't take out a sprint point for that. Maybe it calls for a small reduction in flat, or resistance, or whatever would make him get tired in the end and not sprint, but not in the sprint stat.
True, i sometimes mix real life with the game much
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| kumazan |
Posted on 03-02-2012 16:08
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Do we live in the same world? Because on mine i saw Sagan winning three stages at Vuelta and beating Bennati,Petacchi and Kittel that times. Kittel won just one sprint there and Sagan was right there behing him
Of course Kittel is great sprinter, but that is Sagan too and he is 77/77 in database if i remember right:
I would make that:
Petacchi 80/79
Kittel 79/79
Rojas 78/79
Sagan 78/79
And i understand that nobody wants a Sagan monster in the game, as with bigger stats he would have won every sprint in the hilly stage, but the reality is that he is that good
In what world, in the one where Sagan's wins were an uphill sprint, a sprint against Lastras and three team mates, and the final stage in Madrid where Kittel wasn't there, and the rest of the opposition was pretty average, except for an unfit Petacchi?
I mean, Sagan is awesome, but he's not as fast as Kittel, and he's neither a top sprinter, I didn't mean he's a turtle or something. I almost completely agree with your proposed stats, but I'd put Kittel in the same level as Petacchi, and both maybe with 81, not 80, in sprint.
Edited by kumazan on 03-02-2012 16:08
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Posted on 19-06-2013 02:09
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| fickman |
Posted on 03-02-2012 21:36
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Rigoberto Urán Potencial should be 7 he was 25 in the UCI World Tour Ranking 2011
Carlos Betancourt Potencial 6
Esteban Chavez Pontencial 6 and better stats
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| sam1196 |
Posted on 04-02-2012 11:22
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Not everybody who wins Avenir becomes a great star....
Lets see how he does before already updating his potential.
VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO |
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| Kompakt |
Posted on 04-02-2012 14:42
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Just stumbled across Millar's FL stat is only 71. I would have him down as one of the best riders in the peloton in flat terrain. Considering what other inferior riders are given, I would give him around 78. As another poster metioned Dekker have very high stats. Looks like its still his old doped stats, could be dropped a few points IMO untill he proves something. |
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 04-02-2012 16:01
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sam1196 wrote:
Not everybody who wins Avenir becomes a great star....
Lets see how he does before already updating his potential.
But Esteban Chaves has shown in more than just Avenir, and apparently outclimbed his whole team in training camp (considering most of his team-mates stats are a little low imo, thats a great acheivement)
Same goes for David Boily, high potential.......... 
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 04-02-2012 16:32
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Gabriele Bosisio's stats are very high in my opinion. 74/76 MO/Hill is too much for him. It's not 2009 anymore, certainly after his ban. 72/73 sounds better
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| fcancellara |
Posted on 04-02-2012 16:37
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@Spilak23
He managed to become 8th in the Giro in my career, so his stats are definitely too high.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 04-02-2012 17:03
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valverde321 wrote:
But Esteban Chaves has shown in more than just Avenir
He did?
valverde321 wrote:
, and apparently outclimbed his whole team in training camp (considering most of his team-mates stats are a little low imo, thats a great acheivement)
Not trying to be a negative nellie, but so did Lasse Bochman at the Saxo training camp at 2008, Jesús Hernández at the Astana training camp in 2009.....etc
It's a training camp, it doesn't really mean much
If you want to say 'the things science doesn't understand...that's god's hand', then - because the list of things science can't explain and that religious people attribute to god is constantly getting smaller and smaller - you've just defined your own god as a continuously receding pocket of ignorance.
That's about the most offensive thing you could possibly say about a religion. Yet people only ever claim it about their own religion. |
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| andrebaptista |
Posted on 04-02-2012 17:04
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In my opinion Alexandr Dyachenko is underrated.
He finished in 9th place in the TT Worlds. He probably will never repeat that result, but still is a good result for him. So I don't think he should have only 68 (if I am not mistaken).
He finished ahead of Fuglsang, Castroviejo, Gustav Larsson so in my opinion he should have at least 74. |
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| RHW |
Posted on 04-02-2012 17:09
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Spilak23 wrote:
Gabriele Bosisio's stats are very high in my opinion. 74/76 MO/Hill is too much for him. It's not 2009 anymore, certainly after his ban. 72/73 sounds better
agree with this one, also Astarloza's stats are a little high for someone's who's just returned from suspension and is yet to show anything since his comeback. |
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