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PCM.daily :: Pro Cycling Manager 2010-2006 :: Pro Cycling Manager 2011
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General PCM11 Guide
Kentaurus
#41 Print Post
Posted on 21-08-2011 22:21
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laufman wrote:
Hi.

I'm sorry if missed this in explanations, but i have a question. What means effort number going (sparkling) red. For example i have riders in peloton on 50% effort to maintain position. And on some sort of time their number start to sparkle in red colour. Is this meaning that i need to increase number, because peloton is going faster, because when the number is red riders start to falling back in the peloton. Or this is somthing else ? Thank you for answer.


Yes you need to increase it in order to maintain that position, but often as you see in my videos I will have my guys set to ~85 every now and then they will get the glowing red number, which only means they will slide back some. With your riders at the front, they normally can slide back a good distance and still be part of the main group. Setting that number up higher can be very detrimental to your rider because instead of sliding back when in a tough spot, he will expend all of his energy and then just completely fall back to the back.
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Jam200uk
#42 Print Post
Posted on 22-08-2011 11:40
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Cobblestones

Sorry for the block of text!

This advice is based on past experiences and could be wildly wrong, however, I have had success with it. I have had to play quite a lot of these recently as my sponsor has set high importance on a few of the races e.g. Paris-Roubaix. There is also pretty good money associated with these races. Of course, if the race is a cobble stage and your GC contender does not have good cobbles then this tactic might change depending on your overall goals.

The most important thing to note is that you need a really good cobble stat to win this i.e. 79 or above. Often the races are >200km, therefore, the stamina stat could come into play. Of course, if people reply, they will state that hill and flat are quite important as well, but usually if you have a good cobble man, these stats will be good as well- massive generalisation.
Get all of your riders to the front using relay. Make sure you pick strong riders to support your main contender. Since riders will start falling off the back put their effort up and get them to protect your top 3 cobblestone riders. Try not to rehydrate your riders whilst they are on the cobbles so wait for some flat to appear. Don’t ride in the breakaways- there is no point and it will only waste a rider, however, always stay at the front of the peloton. Use your support riders aggressively, i.e. as soon as they start struggling (bpm goes red) give them their bar- the most important thing is to protect your three main guys. If you can anticipate them going red- even better! If you have eight riders in the race and three are protecting- keep one for water and switch protection roles with a rider who is struggling, with the other. Keeping at the front of peloton is key and very soon you will see your protectors falling off- as soon as this happens, tell them to maintain position and get another rider to protect. Eventually you will have your second best cobble man protecting your best cobble man. Throughout the race, keep your eyes on the favourites and where they are. As soon as they break, which is usually >40km from the finish, follow them. Use energy gel if you have to- it is adamant you stay with them. Depending on how the rider is feeling- I will either set my rider to dot and try and get away and win with a big margin or sprint follow someone like Hushovd- this is assuming I only have one rider left which is more than likely.

Another thing worth considering is when you only have 3 riders left. I usually have my 3rd best protecting my best rider. Quite often, I will switch protection roles between my 2nd and 3rd best. I don’t know whether this is sensible but it seems to give the protectors a little break between protection periods, therefore, total distance protected for my best rider is increased.

With the right rider and form- this tactic usually insures me a top 5 finish.

Hope this has helped and looking forward to the critique!
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vX-2
#43 Print Post
Posted on 21-10-2011 17:19
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@ Kentaurus: Your guide is wildly good... should pin this thread up.

1) Will you be doing a guide on how to maintain a 'high' position in the paleton w/o wasting too much energy?

2) Any guide on training as well?
Edited by vX-2 on 21-10-2011 17:20
 
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baseballlover312
#44 Print Post
Posted on 21-10-2011 18:39
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Nice job, but I don't think (in the video) that Danielson should have sprinted without any red bar left. Keep him on dot or if his in a group, you can even infinite relay to make him get infront and block opponents.
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yoejo
#45 Print Post
Posted on 22-12-2011 09:45
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Jam200uk, I agree with some things that u say, haven´t tried ur tactic about relay though. Here´s what I do and it hvae worked great for me. Will start by saying that I won Tour of flanders 2012 with Hushovd and he had 78 in cobblestones. but on the same day he had +5 in form and 98 in fitness so I had luck too Grin

apart from that, I agree that at least 79 is required to wina cobbled race. a good sprint is also important. So winning with Van Summeren that for me now has 78 in cobbles and 54-something in sprint, it´s almost impossible.

I can also disagree on the breakaway part. I have come second in ghent-wevelgem with Haussler who has 76 in cobbles. He and kurt arvesen broke away with 90k to go and the two sprinted out. he was just stronger.
Btw, if you have a guy between 74-77 in cobbles, u can try and get him in a breakaway in the middle of the race. it might work. not at RVL or PB, but in Ghent-Wevelgem or E3prijs it can work. I have experienced it on fleche wallonne as well, but that´s another story.
but in the beginning it is kinda useless to be in a breakaway unless for fun. but it requires more effort since you have to be aware of two groups.

I would say that if you have one guy over 79 and one guy at 78, do like this:
try to have them in the front as much as you can. it requires less effort to keep the pace of the peloton on the cobbles if they are between number1-10 than number 20 or down. I usually don´t protect my best riders in the beginng of the race on the cobbles (PB or RVL). If they have around 130-140 in bpm the difference is not that big in the end. besides, there´s a greater chance for your star rider(s) to fall back if he(they) are protected since they might take the front spot. PB and RVL race starts for real with around 80-90k to go.
On the cobble section in the early part of the race, put all your riders at effort 30. By that, they will keep the pace of the peloton and their heart rate won´t go up either.
when the pace goes up (80-70k to go) put the effort around 50 or a little more. depends on the difficult (I play on hard) and the pace. But try to get a feeling of the speed. Just don´t do any work in the front between the sections if it isn´t really necessary. (i.e an outsider breakaway rider with 75 in cobbles that is gaining time on the peloton.)
Always remember one thing about the last 80k. Never let your star rider fall back in the peloton! you can loose the RVL on just one cobbled section if you fall of the back.
try to protect your star riders between the sections also. and rehydrate them.

I don´t have so much more advise. The northern classics does variate a lot in how the race develops.
try not to attack before 20k to go, and if you play with a good sprinter like cancellara, breschel, hushovd or boonen try to make it in a sprint. If you want to win alone then it´s risky and it can be the difference on 1st and 7th place. I have so far only played with hushovd and boonen in PCM2011 and they can both sprint. And I have won both PB and RVL on numerous occassions.
 
mattie524
#46 Print Post
Posted on 22-12-2011 22:13
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awesome guide man! keep it up! Smile
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yoejo
#47 Print Post
Posted on 24-12-2011 22:28
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awesome guide man! keep it up!


don´t know if u meant my post, but I´ll at least complete that one. there was some things I forgot.

classics: The best advice, if u really want to win and have a really good team, is to prioritize your best guy to win. This may sound weird, but for me sometimes I want to have a rerun of 1996 Johan Museeuw PB win when Mapei finished 1-2-3. (or 2002 when domo-farm frites finished 1-2-3-5 in pB)

even if you have two guys almost equally good, let´s say one at 81 at cobbles and one at 79. It´s better to make one of these the super-luxury teammate to reel in the attacks when it is 20k left or something, so your star rider doesn´t have to relay more than necessary.

ask if you got more questions. Cool


 
desimon95
#48 Print Post
Posted on 08-02-2012 17:30
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Just some advice for the next databases and next PCMgames: TOM BOONEN should have more for sprint and acc !! He is still a very good sprinter (top5 of the world) 78SP 75ACC isnt very realistic!! so if the makers maybe want to remember this because a lot of other players are telling me the same!! and i agree !!

This is what i hope to see in the next database / next PCM'12 :

TOM BOONEN 80sp 78acc !!

THX
 
dienblad
#49 Print Post
Posted on 08-02-2012 17:33
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desimon95 wrote:



Just some advice for the next databases and next PCMgames: TOM BOONEN should have more for sprint and acc !! He is still a very good sprinter (top5 of the world) 78SP 75ACC isnt very realistic!! so if the makers maybe want to remember this because a lot of other players are telling me the same!! and i agree !!

This is what i hope to see in the next database / next PCM'12 :

TOM BOONEN 80sp 78acc !!

THX


Think you're a Tom Boonen fan.... Come on, don't post this in almost every stats-thread....
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sam1196
#50 Print Post
Posted on 08-02-2012 19:15
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desimon95 wrote:



Just some advice for the next databases and next PCMgames: TOM BOONEN should have more for sprint and acc !! He is still a very good sprinter (top5 of the world) 78SP 75ACC isnt very realistic!! so if the makers maybe want to remember this because a lot of other players are telling me the same!! and i agree !!

This is what i hope to see in the next database / next PCM'12 :

TOM BOONEN 80sp 78acc !!

THX


As Dienblad said, Stop spamming with stat changes etc in the wrong thread. Here "race tacktics" are given for any rider. So don't spamm it with Boonen's stats witch should be in the stat discussion thread.
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fickman
#51 Print Post
Posted on 14-02-2012 14:04
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Do u sprint i the last km in a steeply (over 10%) mountain. Im not sure what is better hust to keep with dot or to sprint. I have the feeling my best climbers lose gap when i sprint.

What do u think?
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sam1196
#52 Print Post
Posted on 14-02-2012 16:28
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Yes you can sprint but make sure he's bar runs out at the finish and not before or he totally cracks... when you sprint uphill just lower the efford Wink
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lluuiiggii
#53 Print Post
Posted on 14-02-2012 16:36
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sam1196 wrote:
Yes you can sprint but make sure he's bar runs out at the finish and not before or he totally cracks... when you sprint uphill just lower the efford Wink

Effort bar has no effect on sprinting, as far as I know.
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fickman
#54 Print Post
Posted on 14-02-2012 17:03
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So what would be the best tactic. Im not sure about that.
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lluuiiggii
#55 Print Post
Posted on 14-02-2012 17:16
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fickman wrote:
So what would be the best tactic. Im not sure about that.

Well tbh I've never seen much difference in both (on the steep finishes). I think you should just try to make sure the red/yellow bar doesn't run out before the finish, like sam said. Also if there's some flat part before the finish (0.3 km for example), getting there with some more energy could make a difference (gaps can easily appear in this transition from very steep to flat).
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sam1196
#56 Print Post
Posted on 14-02-2012 19:12
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lluuiiggii wrote:
sam1196 wrote:
Yes you can sprint but make sure he's bar runs out at the finish and not before or he totally cracks... when you sprint uphill just lower the efford Wink

Effort bar has no effect on sprinting, as far as I know.


Yes it does, you should notice it when sprinting when you put it on 99% your energy runs out fast and speed is high. when sprinting on 85% it's the other way around.
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lluuiiggii
#57 Print Post
Posted on 14-02-2012 20:08
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sam1196 wrote:
lluuiiggii wrote:
sam1196 wrote:
Yes you can sprint but make sure he's bar runs out at the finish and not before or he totally cracks... when you sprint uphill just lower the efford Wink

Effort bar has no effect on sprinting, as far as I know.


Yes it does, you should notice it when sprinting when you put it on 99% your energy runs out fast and speed is high. when sprinting on 85% it's the other way around.

Tbh never noticed that. Well I got this info from the manual (look in 'Sprint). Obviously the manual is (very) outdated with some stuff, but I don't think this is the kind of thing Cyanide changes from game to game.

Edit: ran a quick test. Got two riders from my team alone in an intermediate sprint and sprinted with both of them. First set 30 effort for one and 99 for the other. Then 99 for the first and 30 for the other, and they kept the same speed. I didn't look in the bars (also because it was an intermediate sprint, quite quick to look in the bars), but it would be pretty strange if they could change speed but not bar consumption.
Edited by lluuiiggii on 14-02-2012 20:27
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sam1196
#58 Print Post
Posted on 15-02-2012 14:06
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Strange in uphill sprints with me it does make a difference...
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jt1109
#59 Print Post
Posted on 15-02-2012 15:25
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Effort bar definatly makes a difference for me helps me tons in sprint lead outs
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lluuiiggii
#60 Print Post
Posted on 15-02-2012 15:35
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jt1109 wrote:
Effort bar definatly makes a difference for me helps me tons in sprint lead outs

You mean when using the dot or when using the sprint action?

Edit: again, did another test. This time an uphill finish (Galibier because it's steep all the way long in the last km). Did several tests this time though: first, two riders with same mountain stat (not that it really matters but well), sprinting side by side. Changed efforts various times for them, numbers from 15 to 99. Nothing happened, speed was the same. Later, another rider sprinting solo now. Lowered effort a lot and kept looking at his bars, they decreased at the same speed. Lastly, did it again with one more rider, this time lowering his effort bar to 0 - which, in all actions in PCM 11 except for attacking, following and protecting, make the rider go full stop (0 km/h) - and he kept sprinting in his normal speed. So I'm pretty sure from what I've seen that the effort bar, as says the manual, has no effect on the actions I listed above, including sprint.
Edited by lluuiiggii on 15-02-2012 16:07
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