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PCM.daily :: Pro Cycling Manager 2010-2006 :: Pro Cycling Manager 2010
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Cyanide is deleting topics and forum members....
ruben
Posted on 19-08-2010 13:27
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Had a really long talk with Eyolfur

Basically the problem with their forums is, that only Eyolfor and Freire read it from time to time, they have no mods or admins. Focus half-owns the forums, but they are not deleting topics.
In times of 'crisis' the forum is unmanagable. Because of the lack of mods/admins. So the only option left is mass pruning and deleting.
They delete topics when there are insults of angry people,yes, like me Wink, get annoyed and start to say Cyanide ignore them, and Eyolfur/Freire are the only ones actually trying to get problems through and help the community. And therefore deletes threads/topics.

Focus TechSupport doesn't really do much good in trying to get the problems to the right side. Their support consists mainly of 'reinstall your computer, your game, and pray it works'.

Cyanide doesn't have the money to hire someone to moderate/admin the forum. And it doesn't trust the community members enough to self-moderate the forum, understandable, since that was somewhat of a disaster in the past.

The only wat to get problems through is a detailed description of the problem, (with AI better with replay) and trying to stay calm. The posts DO get read. Eyolfur/Freire just can't react much, if at all, they have other work to do as well.

Eyolfur admits the beta-testing didnt went good and a lot of the problems could and should have been detected. But the problems is the more testers they appoint, the bigger the danger of NDA (Non-disclosure agreements) breaches occur. It doesn't help when the PCM Daily admin (yes Mike/Crue, that's you Wink ) breaks the NDA repeatedly...
They have one internal tester, but he doesn't know much about cycling, so he can't help much with AI-behaviour problems. And Cyanide does not have the money to appoint more professional testers. So they are dependant of the community.

Basically the rest is the same story as always. The are simply not a big company. And hiring twice as much developers could make a great PCM, but even if they sell 5% more than they currently are, they would be losing money. That's the shitty part, it's still business, they have to make money or there would be no PCM at all. PCM is their main income and most important game, but regardless wether they developed good (CyM4, PCM 2006, PCM 2009 etc) or bad games (CyM2, PCM 2007 etc), the sale numbers are about the same each year.
The only solution for hoping to have a good game each year is a different beta-test approach next year and hoping that Cyanide could grow into a bigger company over time so they can afford to hire more devs for the game..

Otherwise we'll just have to live with good and lesser versions and the best we can do is try to help them as much as possible.
img546.imageshack.us/img546/8094/dekkersignaturew.png
 
CrueTrue
Posted on 19-08-2010 13:34
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So basically, I'm partly to blame for a buggy game, because I once said that the beta ran fine on medium settings on my computer. Is that what you / Cyanide are saying?

*sigh*

I really, really, really have to hold back here in order not to come up with the famous Mike-anger.
 
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ruben
Posted on 19-08-2010 13:38
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Oh shit, now I got mike angry Sad
I can't do much good these days
Doesn't matter what I try Pfft

I'll just give up. Move along people, there is nothing to see here
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issoisso
Posted on 19-08-2010 13:40
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CrueTrue wrote:
So basically, I'm partly to blame for a buggy game, because I once said that the beta ran fine on medium settings on my computer. Is that what you / Cyanide are saying?


Credit where it's due, Eyolfur has a point there.

I can't remember what it was exactly, but you gave out far more than that. If you go back through your messenger logs, you'll surely find me and doddy asking you why the heck you were divulging stuff.

CrueTrue wrote:
*sigh*

I really, really, really have to hold back here in order not to come up with the famous Mike-anger.


Never heard of such a thing
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified

i.imgur.com/YWVAnoO.jpg

"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
 
Macimate
Posted on 19-08-2010 13:41
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I for one plan to go with a smile twelve miles wide and with four cholos crowding my death bed, fighting for access to my various orifices.
 
hillis91
Posted on 19-08-2010 13:41
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Maybe the detailed simulating function have something to do with the AI acting strange. Because the defult settings is that the leader should sprint from 200m? Maybe thats the malfunction?


 
Lachi
Posted on 19-08-2010 13:43
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Cyanide already found the sprint bug, so no guessing needed.
 
hillis91
Posted on 19-08-2010 13:45
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Okey, what was the issue then?


 
CrueTrue
Posted on 19-08-2010 13:53
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issoisso wrote:
CrueTrue wrote:
So basically, I'm partly to blame for a buggy game, because I once said that the beta ran fine on medium settings on my computer. Is that what you / Cyanide are saying?


Credit where it's due, Eyolfur has a point there.

I can't remember what it was exactly, but you gave out far more than that. If you go back through your messenger logs, you'll surely find me and doddy asking you why the heck you were divulging stuff.



I got one warning from Cyanide regarding the comment I posted above. No other warnings about me breaking the NDA. Therefore, I can only suppose that that's the incident we're talking about. If there are / were more, they would or should have told me.

Besides, if they feel I'm standing in the way of the process of making a good game, it'd be quite easy to get rid of me.

Either way, I can't take blame for a buggy game. For that, you need to look at the developers, not a translator. Blaming everyone else than yourself is just flat-out arrogant.
 
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hillis91
Posted on 19-08-2010 13:55
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CrueTrue wrote:
issoisso wrote:
CrueTrue wrote:
So basically, I'm partly to blame for a buggy game, because I once said that the beta ran fine on medium settings on my computer. Is that what you / Cyanide are saying?


Credit where it's due, Eyolfur has a point there.

I can't remember what it was exactly, but you gave out far more than that. If you go back through your messenger logs, you'll surely find me and doddy asking you why the heck you were divulging stuff.



I got one warning from Cyanide regarding the comment I posted above. No other warnings about me breaking the NDA. Therefore, I can only suppose that that's the incident we're talking about. If there are / were more, they would or should have told me.

Besides, if they feel I'm standing in the way of the process of making a good game, it'd be quite easy to get rid of me.

Either way, I can't take blame for a buggy game. For that, you need to look at the developers, not a translator. Blaming everyone else than yourself is just flat-out arrogant.


Hear Hear


 
EintrachtFan
Posted on 19-08-2010 13:56
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Well if they don't have the money for adequate moderators, why not hiring some decent moderators for free from the community? I can understand, that they became careful, after all that NDA cases, but there are some people out there, who take such things professional and so they would take the moderator thing.

I think the problem with these NDA things is, that they are keeping so much stuff about the new versions in the shadow, i mean they could talk much more about the features and anything. For example a Twitter-Account, or something like the developers diaries Codemasters is doing, but in a lowbudget version ofcourse. Then, there wouldn't be so much in the shadow which beta-testers maybe causes to tell something, they are not supposed to tell.

I'm not saying that they should tell everything, but a little bit more communicative about their work would get them connected to the community - and with that you're buildung up trustful relationships. In my opinion Wink
 
issoisso
Posted on 19-08-2010 13:57
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CrueTrue wrote:
issoisso wrote:
CrueTrue wrote:
So basically, I'm partly to blame for a buggy game, because I once said that the beta ran fine on medium settings on my computer. Is that what you / Cyanide are saying?


Credit where it's due, Eyolfur has a point there.

I can't remember what it was exactly, but you gave out far more than that. If you go back through your messenger logs, you'll surely find me and doddy asking you why the heck you were divulging stuff.



I got one warning from Cyanide regarding the comment I posted above. No other warnings about me breaking the NDA. Therefore, I can only suppose that that's the incident we're talking about. If there are / were more, they would or should have told me.

Besides, if they feel I'm standing in the way of the process of making a good game, it'd be quite easy to get rid of me.

Either way, I can't take blame for a buggy game. For that, you need to look at the developers, not a translator. Blaming everyone else than yourself is just flat-out arrogant.


No qualms there, of course. The fact that you broke the NDA has zero to do with the problems of the game currently. They have no right to bring that up to excuse themselves.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified

i.imgur.com/YWVAnoO.jpg

"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
 
MarcoPRT
Posted on 19-08-2010 14:14
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jph27 wrote:


Well, I wanted to create PCM Britain, but I decided that would be too patriotic, so I changed its name. Wink

Seriously though, Cyanide's list of Community sites is this:

PCM Daily
CyM Spain
PCM Portugal
PCM Scandinavia
PCM Geeks
PCM Benelux
Radsport Manager
PCM Wereld
PCM Passion
RSM News
CyM Italy

Fair enough, but then you see who they're missing: (of the top of my head)

PPDB
PCM Norge
CyM Hungria
PCM Spain
PCM Spot
PCM Central

and Cyanide wonder why so many more people are angry with them, because they don't realise how many people there are. Wink


Well, I think PCM-Spain is not alive anymore. It ended, they created a new one several months after, it ended again, created another, and it seems that it ended again.

Far as I know, for some other you indicate there, there's sites that were created after the content loss from PCMBenelux.

Oh, and just for the record. I don't even know who put PCM-Portugal in that list. We have almost 5 years of existance and we're listed since...last year. And I bet that's due to serifo, one of the beta-testers and one of the greatest stagemakers this year in Cyanide forum, because we don't have active members who post in a regular basis on the french forum.
img8.imageshack.us/img8/5599/steamgif0tvvj8sv8z.gif
 
fenian_1234
Posted on 19-08-2010 16:29
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I'm glad they are moving to fix things.

Do find it a bit lame that they are blaming testers. Rolling Eyes

And what's with the sudden love in now that Cyanide have said they are a small company with limited resources? Did that come as a surprise to the more agressive posters? :lol:
 
doddy13
Posted on 19-08-2010 16:37
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ruben wrote:
Eyolfur admits the beta-testing didnt went good and a lot of the problems could and should have been detected. But the problems is the more testers they appoint, the bigger the danger of NDA (Non-disclosure agreements) breaches occur.


You're welcome cyanide for the help.

Angry... Oh we have a problem - let's blame the beta testers. No, let's not.
Lame excuses. - I'll consider carefully whether to apply next year, I like helping find bugs - but if you are going to blame us then no way.
There's no point slapping a schleck - Sean Kelly on "Who needs a slap"
 
Macimate
Posted on 19-08-2010 16:38
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doddy13 wrote:
ruben wrote:
Eyolfur admits the beta-testing didnt went good and a lot of the problems could and should have been detected. But the problems is the more testers they appoint, the bigger the danger of NDA (Non-disclosure agreements) breaches occur.


You're welcome cyanide for the help.

Angry... Oh we have a problem - let's blame the beta testers. No, let's not.
Lame excuses. - I'll consider carefully whether to apply next year, I like helping find bugs - but if you are going to blame us then no way.

Did you beta test last year, without even noticing these HUGE AI bugs?
Then you are partly responsible. That's what testers are for
 
doddy13
Posted on 19-08-2010 16:40
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Macimate wrote:
doddy13 wrote:
ruben wrote:
Eyolfur admits the beta-testing didnt went good and a lot of the problems could and should have been detected. But the problems is the more testers they appoint, the bigger the danger of NDA (Non-disclosure agreements) breaches occur.


You're welcome cyanide for the help.

Angry... Oh we have a problem - let's blame the beta testers. No, let's not.
Lame excuses. - I'll consider carefully whether to apply next year, I like helping find bugs - but if you are going to blame us then no way.

Did you beta test last year, without even noticing these HUGE AI bugs?
Then you are partly responsible. That's what testers are for


Don't enrage me further.
There's no point slapping a schleck - Sean Kelly on "Who needs a slap"
 
ruben
Posted on 19-08-2010 16:42
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I knew I should have left that part out, more angry people.
It's not directed at all beta-testers. Let that be clear.
img546.imageshack.us/img546/8094/dekkersignaturew.png
 
doddy13
Posted on 19-08-2010 16:45
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ruben wrote:
I knew I should have left that part out, more angry people.
It's not directed at all beta-testers. Let that be clear.


I'm glad you left it in. I know it's not directed at all, but it's very fustrating that it was said at all.
I know that I worked my butt off in testing, as did others like isso amongst many more. There were very few people who really sat around doing nothing.
There's no point slapping a schleck - Sean Kelly on "Who needs a slap"
 
CrueTrue
Posted on 19-08-2010 16:55
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Macimate wrote:
doddy13 wrote:
ruben wrote:
Eyolfur admits the beta-testing didnt went good and a lot of the problems could and should have been detected. But the problems is the more testers they appoint, the bigger the danger of NDA (Non-disclosure agreements) breaches occur.


You're welcome cyanide for the help.

Angry... Oh we have a problem - let's blame the beta testers. No, let's not.
Lame excuses. - I'll consider carefully whether to apply next year, I like helping find bugs - but if you are going to blame us then no way.

Did you beta test last year, without even noticing these HUGE AI bugs?
Then you are partly responsible. That's what testers are for


I'd be careful with the wording when you have no idea how the betas were like compared to the final game.
 
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